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Thread: resurrection bodies for the lost?

  1. #61
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    Re: resurrection bodies for the lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You are begging the question. We have yet to prove, from your perspective, that "everlasting destruction" means anything more than complete removal from the home of the righteous.


    That isn't a real definition of the term. It doesn't make sense in any language especially English. It does not say everlasting removal.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  2. #62
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    Re: resurrection bodies for the lost?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That isn't a real definition of the term. It doesn't make sense in any language especially English. It is you that has to prove that being destroyed means not being destroyed. It does not say everlasting removal.
    I have proven it already.
    Sorry, brother, I haven't see your "proof" yet? Could you resubmit in brief? To refresh, the question is: Do you not admit that following death the spirit of a deceased person remains "alive?" If so, this means that "death" does not automatically mean annihilation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq
    If you live eternally then you do have eternal life and you claim that for the unsaved. You claim they are alive and are alive forever. Eternal life without Christ and eternal life with Christ are both eternal life, one merely better than the other.
    No, in context "eternal life" is reserved for the obedient, and indicates not just eternal existence, but more, a continuation of regular fellowship with God. Adam and Eve enjoyed "walks" with God in the garden on a regular basis. God wanted them to have this relationship eternally.

    So in context, "eternal life" means eternal existence with a certain quality of life. The ability of sin had to be stripped from man's capacity by physical death, in preparation for a new physical existence without the possibility of death. "Death is the last enemy to be defeated." 1 Cor 15.26.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq
    Eden was on the Earth plus they were never kicked out of Eden anyways. They were only kicked out of the garden.
    Yes, this expressed God's intention to remove sinful man from God's ideal environment. It did not require cessation of existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq
    This is a strawman fallacy. A&E weren't cast into the LOF after the GWTJ.
    The idea of removal of sinful man led to death, but *not* to a cessation of existence. Death itself did not lead to a cessation of existence, since departed spirits continue to exist. And in the end, death itself would be defeated.

    Since even the wicked are raised from the dead, part of this "victory over death means that not even the wicked will die physically a 2nd time. Thus, the "2nd Death" is a removal of the wicked from the land of the righteous, and not a cessation from existence. The "destruction from the presence of the Lord" is a complete severance of the wicked from the presence of the Lord, but not a cessation of existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq
    It does in any language you translate it in. You are turning it into "everlasting non-destruction from the presence of the Lord"
    Not every culture understands what the "presence of the Lord" is! Destruction from His presence is what the ban from the Garden symbolized, though God's presence was still available in a limited way. Complete destruction is a severance of all hope of having access to God's presence. It does not refer to a cessation of existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq
    Of course it is when you delete the word "destruction".

    On the same planet is hardly "far removed" especially when the spirit of God has always dwelled over the entire planet throughout history.
    God's Spirit is omnipresent. However, His "presence" has to do with particular locations that bring fellowship and blessing to man, when he is obedient. On a future earth, after sin has been banned, the wicked can have an existence and yet not have any more access to God's presence in the sense of fellowship and blessing.

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