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Thread: One Baptism

  1. #1

    One Baptism

    I have a couple of questions about the Baptism that is spoken of in Ephesians 4:5-6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism".

    1). Is this baptism talking about moving from Adam into Christ as we become a believer?

    2). If this means a different baptism (for instance, water baptism), why do others preach 2 baptisms? (Water, Holy Spirit)

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    I have a couple of questions about the Baptism that is spoken of in Ephesians 4:5-6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism".

    1). Is this baptism talking about moving from Adam into Christ as we become a believer?

    2). If this means a different baptism (for instance, water baptism), why do others preach 2 baptisms? (Water, Holy Spirit)

    Thanks!
    The word "Baptism" is an Anglicization of the Greek word "Baptizo", which means to dunk or submerge as in dyeing a garment. It sometimes helps to substitute the word Baptism with "Immerse". So Matthew 3:11 can correctly be rendered; "I indeed IMMERSE you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall IMMERSE you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire". Ephesians 4 is all about UNITY in the Church. In verse 3 we have "the UNITY of the Spirit" which has already been established and which we are to endeavor to keep by self denial. Then the risen Lord is introduced as the Giver of the Spiritual Gifts that are needed to BUILD the Church. Then the purpose of the gifts is given - to bring us to the UNITY of the FAITH (verse 13). "THE FAITH" is what we believe. The gifted brothers and sisters in the Assembly must use their gifts to teach us what God wants so that we can all strive together, in one direction and with unified energy to build Christ's Body.

    Thus, within the context, Ephesians 4:4-6 shows that God wants ONENESS and He has set the pace by INTRODUCING ONENESS as the foundation;
    • There is one body (of Christ)
    • There is one (Holy) Spirit
    • You are called in one hope of your calling
    • There is One Lord,
    • There is one faith,
    • There is one baptism,
    • There is One God
    • There is One Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all

    The ONE Baptism means BOTH (i) ONE is number. That is, you cannot be Baptized more than once. And it means (ii) there is no other but that ONE in the Name of Jesus. That is why the Baptism in John's name in Acts 19 did not work. The context is about the INTRINSIC nature of Christ's Body. There is only ONE Church in the world and it POSSESSES intrinsic characteristics. It is inhabited by each of the Triune Godhead (one SPIRIT, one LORD, one FATHER). There is only one CORRECT belief. It has one HOPE. It is indwelt by ONE GOD. The whole context is the INTRINSIC nature - the INTERNAL characteristics.

    The Baptism, or IMMERSION in the Holy Spirit that happened at Pentecost was OUTWARD. The Greek word we render "filled" in Acts 2:2 where the house was "filled" is "pleroo" - meaning filled INWARDLY. But in Acts 2:4 where "they were all filled with the Holy Spirit ... .", is another Greek word word "plethoo". It does not mean filled like a cup is filled with tea. It means "furnished" like a policeman gets a uniform. If you insist that it be rendered as "filled" it means "full" like a young boy plays in a mud-puddle and gets "FULL of muddy water". The water and mud are OUTSIDE the boy. Ephesians 4:4-6 does not deal with the Holy Spirit given OUTWARDLY. It deals with the Holy Spirit given INWARDLY as He was in John 20:22. The INWARD giving of the Holy Spirit is to get eternal life and the nature of God. The OUTWARD giving of the Holy Spirit is given FOR POWER (Lk.24:49; Act.1:8).

    So the ONE Baptism of Ephesians 4 is the WATER BAPTISM of a Christian. There is only ONE such Baptism (in Jesus' Name), and it is only to be administered ONCE after a Christian converts.

  3. #3

    Re: One Baptism

    By others do you mean John the Baptist? And also Paul who acknowledges both ?

    “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
    **Acts‬ *19:2-5‬ *KJV‬‬


    there are very clearly two one was John the Baptist ministry, it was baptism by immersion a believer stands above the water , is buried beneath it , and is raised up from the water. Paul speaks of this in Romans chapter 6 , it is baptism of water for the remission of sins. Or baptism u to repentance. The second baptism there Paul says they were baptized a second time into the name of Jesus. Just after this they receive the Holy Spirit .

    it's interesting to me to note that there isn't a specific order such as one must be baptized with water before you can receive the Holy Ghost. Some like above had been baptized in the water of johns baptism into the death ofmchrist , but that hadn't received the spirit by the resurrection of Christ.

    while others first hear the word and believe and receive the Holy Ghost ....and then are commanded they be baptized in water. Such as here


    “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

    And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
    **Acts‬ *10:34-40, 42-44, 47-48‬ *KJV‬‬



    very clearly there is the baptism of the Holy Ghost which comes by hearing and believing the word, and there is then a baptism of water . Note Peter makes a point as soon as they receive the Holy Ghost...his first command is concerning water and baptism.

    where as Paul comes along to a chirch that have been baptized in water for remission of sins....yet have not received the Holy Ghost , because they haven't heard there is such a thing as the Holy Ghost, they hear and believe and then are baptized into Christ and receive....


    it can happen either way. You quote there " one baptism " it is the same God , in fact even those of Moses time
    **

    “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.”
    **1 Corinthians‬ *10:1-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    its all one ....it doesn't matter that they came before John , or John before Jesus was ascended and sent the spirit....baptism is an act of faith , when they were told to pass through the Red Sea on both sides the water towered up , but by faith because God said it would hold ....they stepped forth . Baptism is an act of faith , we act in water baptism by faith , and Christ sends the spirit to us by the same faith .


    one baptism is for inclusion in his death for this reason

    “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
    **Romans‬ *3:25‬ *KJV‬‬


    because the shedding of blood , atones for sin. Death atones for sin. Baptism is an inclusive act because we believe ...

    “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    **Romans‬ *6:3-4‬ *KJV‬‬


    we are included by design of God into the death ofmchrist through baptism, death is what remits sin, all who have sinned owe death, a sacrificial death remits, or propitiate a the demand of death based on what God said. Water baptism is all about the remission of sins it's why Jesus died

    “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
    **Matthew‬ *26:28‬ *KJV

    again a sacrifice propitiates the demand of death for sin.nthis is why we're baptized into his death when were taken beneath the water because Christ's death is what remits our sins

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    **Acts‬ *2:38‬ *KJV‬‬


    this is johns baptism

    “John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
    **Mark‬ *1:4‬ *KJV‬‬


    but even John who is where the idea of a baptism of the spirit comes from its Scripturally sound and evident


    “And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.”
    **Mark‬ *1:7-8‬ *KJV‬‬


    That's why people talk about water baptism and spiritual baptism because it's doctrine. The only difference in those who Paul had to re baptize in Christ's name , is they were baptized before he died and sent the commission....the baptism of water is still Christian doctrine , we do it now in the name of the father , son and Holy Ghost....things unheard of and senseless before Jesus came and preached the gospel....they hadn't received the spirit because they hadn't heard about the spirit being given....

  4. #4
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    By others do you mean John the Baptist? And also Paul who acknowledges both ?

    “He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.”
    **Acts‬ *19:2-5‬ *KJV‬‬


    there are very clearly two one was John the Baptist ministry, it was baptism by immersion a believer stands above the water , is buried beneath it , and is raised up from the water. Paul speaks of this in Romans chapter 6 , it is baptism of water for the remission of sins. Or baptism u to repentance. The second baptism there Paul says they were baptized a second time into the name of Jesus. Just after this they receive the Holy Spirit .

    .....

    That's why people talk about water baptism and spiritual baptism because it's doctrine. The only difference in those who Paul had to re baptize in Christ's name , is they were baptized before he died and sent the commission....the baptism of water is still Christian doctrine , we do it now in the name of the father , son and Holy Ghost....things unheard of and senseless before Jesus came and preached the gospel....they hadn't received the spirit because they hadn't heard about the spirit being given....

    You did not quote anybody, so I might be out of place answering you. But it might be of general interest. I mainly address what I made red.

    John's Baptism was for Israel and it was before the Savior was announced. Acts 13:24 says; "When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel." His job was to announce the Savior and when this was done his duty was over. Acts 19:4 says; "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." John did not Baptize in anyone's name. He merely presented Israel with the fact of their sins and the need for them to be buried in water as a preparation for their Messiah. Since there was no talk yet of killing Jesus, the implication of John's Baptism was that Israel was sinning by breaking the Law. That John's Baptism addressed sins under Law is seen in Luke 16:16. "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." John's Baptism was one of Israel admitting that their efforts under Law had failed and that they needed something more than the Law.

    The death of our Lord Jesus is called a "Baptism" by Jesus Himself (Matt.20:22-23; MK.10:38-39; Lk.12:50). This was to show that Jesus was IMMERSED in death for sins (of others), and that the disciples would partake of this death, not as reality - because they were not qualified to die for other's sins - but as a "sign" that the logical end of man is death because of sins and his old body is unfit for the Kingdom. The context was THE KINGDOM (Matt.20:21 etc.). Our Lord Jesus was showing His disciples that the way into the Kingdom was to be IMMERSED in death first. John did not require this. John did not Baptize in a Name. Nor did he allude to Christ's death. And even if his message was given and approved by God, his ministry was over once he announced Jesus. John preached by the "spirit of Elijah" (Lk.1:17), but as Jesus came out of the water, He is imbued with the "spirit without measure" (Jn.3:34). And while John must CRY in the wilderness, a voice from heaven thunders that THIS MAN Jesus is the beloved of God. John's ministry to Israel was over as Jesus came out of the water. And on the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus, in the illustrious and lofty company of the Law-giver Moses and the raptured Prophet Elijah, is approved by the Father TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE OTHERS. When men wanted to honor Moses and Elijah, both of which were highly honored by God, the voice from heaven thunders again and BARS the Law and the prophets. ONLY JESUS IS TO BE HEARD!

    The command by our Lord Jesus is, "... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt.28:19). But then a strange thing occurs. The disciples, who were taught by Jesus for three and one half years, command that Baptism be done in Jesus' Name. There are only two options then. (i) The disciples were disobedient including Paul, or (ii) the revelation of Jesus in the New Testament as the embodiment of the Triune God is valid. Colossians 2:9 says; "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." And the Kingdom, for which we are Baptized, has, as its King - THE MAN Jesus. So the correct way to Baptize a man or woman after they believe, is to IMMERSE them in JESUS' Name. By calling on the Name of Jesus the WHOLE PACKAGE that is embodied in Jesus is invoked - Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Sin and Sins dealt with and Resurrection in a new and fit body promised.

    With that we turn to Acts Chapter 19 to get the full import of the failure of John Baptist's IMMERSION. Apollos, a dedicated and talented brother in the Lord (Act.18:24), went to Ephesus and taught the Church there. But he "knew ONLY the Baptism of John". Not only did he teach and outdated Baptism, one that was for Israel under Law, but he did not even know about the Baptism in Jesus' Name. Now Peter, having spent three and one half years with Jesus, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, set forth in Acts 2:38 the CONDITION for receiving the Holy Spirit as they had on Pentecost - for POWER for ministry (Lk.24:49; Act.1:8). The CONDITION for receiving the Holy Spirit as Joel had predicted was to "repent and be Baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS. The Church at Ephesus had repented and believed on Jesus. They were (i) "disciples" (19:1), and (ii) had "believed" (19:2). But they had (i) NOT heard of a Baptism in Jesus' Name, and (ii) carried Apollos' shortcoming. He did not know about a baptism in Jesus' Name and so he also did not know about the Holy Spirit being given for power IF ONE IS BAPTIZED ONLY in Jesus' Name. John Baptism is HISTORY. Important HISTORY, but nevertheless ... HISTORY.

    Only ONE Baptism counts - that in Jesus' Name. And as soon as the believing disciples were IMMERSED in Jesus' Name, they received the Holy Spirit for power as Peter and the disciples did on Pentecost. And then the Holy Spirit ends this lesson with a very important point. He says "they were "TWELVE" (19:7). WHY? Twelve is the number of God's People. TWELVE Tribes and TWELVE Apostles. The number twelve here is saying; THIS WAY, THIS METHOD, THIS SEQUENCE for receiving the Holy Spirit for power to minister, IS VALID FOR ALL GOD'S PEOPLE. There is NO OTHER WAY. There is no validity in any other Baptism. There is ONE Baptism and it is the Baptism IN JESUS' NAME.

  5. #5
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidC View Post
    I have a couple of questions about the Baptism that is spoken of in Ephesians 4:5-6 "One Lord, one faith, one baptism".

    1). Is this baptism talking about moving from Adam into Christ as we become a believer?

    2). If this means a different baptism (for instance, water baptism), why do others preach 2 baptisms? (Water, Holy Spirit)

    Thanks!
    I can see why you ask. We hear of Water Baptism and Spirit Baptism, and then we hear of being Baptized Into Christ. In reality they are all the same. Water Baptism had a different meaning before Christ's redemptive death. It was John's Baptism, because he was doing preliminary work in anticipation of Christ's New Baptism.

    Now, after Christ's redemptive death, we still have Water Baptism. But now it is no longer preliminary to Christ's redemptive death, but is actually a Baptism Into Christ himself, since he has already come, and has made a way for us to participate in him apart from the Law.

    I trust this makes sense to you? It is all a Baptism Into Christ! And this happens actually upon conversion, which is prior to Water Baptism. Water Baptism is purely ceremonial, and represents our public confession that we are from henceforth living for Christ, and no longer part of the sinful world. It is an initiation ceremony into Christianity. But as I said, true entry into Christ spiritually happens upon our decision to follow him, and to receive his Spirit as the means to do this.

  6. #6

    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I can see why you ask. We hear of Water Baptism and Spirit Baptism, and then we hear of being Baptized Into Christ. In reality they are all the same. Water Baptism had a different meaning before Christ's redemptive death. It was John's Baptism, because he was doing preliminary work in anticipation of Christ's New Baptism.

    Now, after Christ's redemptive death, we still have Water Baptism. But now it is no longer preliminary to Christ's redemptive death, but is actually a Baptism Into Christ himself, since he has already come, and has made a way for us to participate in him apart from the Law.

    I trust this makes sense to you? It is all a Baptism Into Christ! And this happens actually upon conversion, which is prior to Water Baptism. Water Baptism is purely ceremonial, and represents our public confession that we are from henceforth living for Christ, and no longer part of the sinful world. It is an initiation ceremony into Christianity. But as I said, true entry into Christ spiritually happens upon our decision to follow him, and to receive his Spirit as the means to do this.
    This is how I see it, too, but wanted to make sure I understood it. There are some who believe there are two separate baptisms, but scripture says there is only one for us.

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    Re: One Baptism

    The one baptism is the baptism by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ. This is concurrent with regeneration.
    Some people don't mind contradicting themselves as long as they can keep disagreeing with you...

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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangedByHim View Post
    The one baptism is the baptism by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ. This is concurrent with regeneration.
    Yes, exactly. In my view, water baptism is a public proclamation of the regeneration, or salvation, that happens prior to water baptism. In other words, water baptism is a representation of that one baptism into Christ. If one gets water baptized to get saved, something's wrong!

  9. #9

    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    You did not quote anybody, so I might be out of place answering you. But it might be of general interest. I mainly address what I made red.

    John's Baptism was for Israel and it was before the Savior was announced. Acts 13:24 says; "When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel." His job was to announce the Savior and when this was done his duty was over. Acts 19:4 says; "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." John did not Baptize in anyone's name. He merely presented Israel with the fact of their sins and the need for them to be buried in water as a preparation for their Messiah. Since there was no talk yet of killing Jesus, the implication of John's Baptism was that Israel was sinning by breaking the Law. That John's Baptism addressed sins under Law is seen in Luke 16:16. "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it." John's Baptism was one of Israel admitting that their efforts under Law had failed and that they needed something more than the Law.

    The death of our Lord Jesus is called a "Baptism" by Jesus Himself (Matt.20:22-23; MK.10:38-39; Lk.12:50). This was to show that Jesus was IMMERSED in death for sins (of others), and that the disciples would partake of this death, not as reality - because they were not qualified to die for other's sins - but as a "sign" that the logical end of man is death because of sins and his old body is unfit for the Kingdom. The context was THE KINGDOM (Matt.20:21 etc.). Our Lord Jesus was showing His disciples that the way into the Kingdom was to be IMMERSED in death first. John did not require this. John did not Baptize in a Name. Nor did he allude to Christ's death. And even if his message was given and approved by God, his ministry was over once he announced Jesus. John preached by the "spirit of Elijah" (Lk.1:17), but as Jesus came out of the water, He is imbued with the "spirit without measure" (Jn.3:34). And while John must CRY in the wilderness, a voice from heaven thunders that THIS MAN Jesus is the beloved of God. John's ministry to Israel was over as Jesus came out of the water. And on the Mount of Transfiguration, Jesus, in the illustrious and lofty company of the Law-giver Moses and the raptured Prophet Elijah, is approved by the Father TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE OTHERS. When men wanted to honor Moses and Elijah, both of which were highly honored by God, the voice from heaven thunders again and BARS the Law and the prophets. ONLY JESUS IS TO BE HEARD!

    The command by our Lord Jesus is, "... baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt.28:19). But then a strange thing occurs. The disciples, who were taught by Jesus for three and one half years, command that Baptism be done in Jesus' Name. There are only two options then. (i) The disciples were disobedient including Paul, or (ii) the revelation of Jesus in the New Testament as the embodiment of the Triune God is valid. Colossians 2:9 says; "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." And the Kingdom, for which we are Baptized, has, as its King - THE MAN Jesus. So the correct way to Baptize a man or woman after they believe, is to IMMERSE them in JESUS' Name. By calling on the Name of Jesus the WHOLE PACKAGE that is embodied in Jesus is invoked - Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Sin and Sins dealt with and Resurrection in a new and fit body promised.

    With that we turn to Acts Chapter 19 to get the full import of the failure of John Baptist's IMMERSION. Apollos, a dedicated and talented brother in the Lord (Act.18:24), went to Ephesus and taught the Church there. But he "knew ONLY the Baptism of John". Not only did he teach and outdated Baptism, one that was for Israel under Law, but he did not even know about the Baptism in Jesus' Name. Now Peter, having spent three and one half years with Jesus, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, set forth in Acts 2:38 the CONDITION for receiving the Holy Spirit as they had on Pentecost - for POWER for ministry (Lk.24:49; Act.1:8). The CONDITION for receiving the Holy Spirit as Joel had predicted was to "repent and be Baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS. The Church at Ephesus had repented and believed on Jesus. They were (i) "disciples" (19:1), and (ii) had "believed" (19:2). But they had (i) NOT heard of a Baptism in Jesus' Name, and (ii) carried Apollos' shortcoming. He did not know about a baptism in Jesus' Name and so he also did not know about the Holy Spirit being given for power IF ONE IS BAPTIZED ONLY in Jesus' Name. John Baptism is HISTORY. Important HISTORY, but nevertheless ... HISTORY.

    Only ONE Baptism counts - that in Jesus' Name. And as soon as the believing disciples were IMMERSED in Jesus' Name, they received the Holy Spirit for power as Peter and the disciples did on Pentecost. And then the Holy Spirit ends this lesson with a very important point. He says "they were "TWELVE" (19:7). WHY? Twelve is the number of God's People. TWELVE Tribes and TWELVE Apostles. The number twelve here is saying; THIS WAY, THIS METHOD, THIS SEQUENCE for receiving the Holy Spirit for power to minister, IS VALID FOR ALL GOD'S PEOPLE. There is NO OTHER WAY. There is no validity in any other Baptism. There is ONE Baptism and it is the Baptism IN JESUS' NAME.


    no johns baptism was for remission of sins before Jesus ministry brother, Jesus then after his resurrection , commanded that those who believed the gospel and received the Holy Ghost , be baptized in his name . It's the same exact process water baptism , the only difference is John baptized before Jesus name was declared at his resurrection. There are two very distinct and thoroughly explained baptisms in scripture .


    John proclaimed it at the beginning , there's no difference between Israel and Gentiles in Christ ....at baptism one is included in his death for the remission of sins . there are two baptisms for a believer then and now. the Holy Spirit comes through believing the gospel that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit in , remission of sins comes by water.


    “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
    **Matthew‬ *3:11‬ *KJV‬‬


    two baptisms one with water , and because Jesus hadn't been glorified yet , hadn't sent the Holy Ghost yet no one could yet be baptized in the spirit , but John is speaking beforehand saying " he will come after me , he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost"


    You then see this happen after his ascention the water baptism has nothing to do with receiving the spirit , receiving the spirit is what John meant by baptism of the spirit,


    if you notice in scripture man is two parts we are flesh , and spirit. This makes a soul . Our flesh is baptized by eater in an act of our faith believing the gospel is what brings the spirit .

    there are two births described in the bible one for the flesh one for the spirit ,there are two deaths described in the bible one for the flesh one for the spirit, there are two baptisms described in the bible one for the flesh and remittance of sins...and the spirit which comes exactly how Jesus said it comes , through believing the gospel .

    There in acts ten it happening the same to the Gentiles since you see johns same water baptism , commanded to those who were just baptized by the spirit, the only difference again is Jesus name was. Not yet declared when John was baptizing ...

  10. #10

    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I can see why you ask. We hear of Water Baptism and Spirit Baptism, and then we hear of being Baptized Into Christ. In reality they are all the same. Water Baptism had a different meaning before Christ's redemptive death. It was John's Baptism, because he was doing preliminary work in anticipation of Christ's New Baptism.

    Now, after Christ's redemptive death, we still have Water Baptism. But now it is no longer preliminary to Christ's redemptive death, but is actually a Baptism Into Christ himself, since he has already come, and has made a way for us to participate in him apart from the Law.

    I trust this makes sense to you? It is all a Baptism Into Christ! And this happens actually upon conversion, which is prior to Water Baptism. Water Baptism is purely ceremonial, and represents our public confession that we are from henceforth living for Christ, and no longer part of the sinful world. It is an initiation ceremony into Christianity. But as I said, true entry into Christ spiritually happens upon our decision to follow him, and to receive his Spirit as the means to do this.

    baptism is a commandment ofmjesus Christ , it is not ceremonial , it's for the remission of sin ....this to the Jews after Jesus resurrection....

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    **Acts‬ *2:38‬ *KJV‬‬


    the order is un important but water and spirit are required neither is ceremonial .

    this to the Gentiles after Jesus resurrection, note the remission of sins doctrine regarding baptism and what Peter was preaching to the Gentiles as they received the Holy Spirit


    “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    immediately Peter...

    Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
    **Acts‬ *10:42-44, 47-48‬ *KJV‬‬

    it's why Jesus died

    “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
    **Matthew‬ *26:28‬ *KJV‬‬

    it's why were baptized

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    **Acts‬ *2:38‬ *KJV‬‬

    and it's why we can understand this

    “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    **Romans‬ *6:2-4‬ *KJV‬‬

    its no ceremony and no one should make it un important it is a commandment ofmjesus Christ , and has very profound roots in scripture . There is baptism of water ....and there is the baptism of the spirit which comes through believing the word.

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
    **John‬ *3:3, 5-6‬ *KJV‬‬


    we must be born of water through baptism for the remission of sins, and baptized of the Holy Ghost by believing the gospel the order of which comes first doesn't matter I've given you both orders in example baptism of water is for the remission of sins , we do it because we believe what the gospel says about Jesus and his blood, his death remitting sin and because it is his commandment there's no reason anyone should ever teach anything else about baptism but what the bible teaches , I'm not away pre of a single verse that suggests it's ceremonial or somehow unimportant it's a basic doctrine and the very first commandment Jesus gave in the great commission for all nations sort of a foundational act actually rather than mere ceremony

    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's really throughout the New Testament the doctrine of baptism for the remission of sins ...

  11. #11
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    no johns baptism was for remission of sins before Jesus ministry brother, Jesus then after his resurrection , commanded that those who believed the gospel and received the Holy Ghost , be baptized in his name . It's the same exact process water baptism , the only difference is John baptized before Jesus name was declared at his resurrection. There are two very distinct and thoroughly explained baptisms in scripture .


    John proclaimed it at the beginning , there's no difference between Israel and Gentiles in Christ ....at baptism one is included in his death for the remission of sins . there are two baptisms for a believer then and now. the Holy Spirit comes through believing the gospel that Jesus promised the Holy Spirit in , remission of sins comes by water.


    “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
    **Matthew‬ *3:11‬ *KJV‬‬


    two baptisms one with water , and because Jesus hadn't been glorified yet , hadn't sent the Holy Ghost yet no one could yet be baptized in the spirit , but John is speaking beforehand saying " he will come after me , he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost"


    You then see this happen after his ascention the water baptism has nothing to do with receiving the spirit , receiving the spirit is what John meant by baptism of the spirit,


    if you notice in scripture man is two parts we are flesh , and spirit. This makes a soul . Our flesh is baptized by eater in an act of our faith believing the gospel is what brings the spirit .

    there are two births described in the bible one for the flesh one for the spirit ,there are two deaths described in the bible one for the flesh one for the spirit, there are two baptisms described in the bible one for the flesh and remittance of sins...and the spirit which comes exactly how Jesus said it comes , through believing the gospel .

    There in acts ten it happening the same to the Gentiles since you see johns same water baptism , commanded to those who were just baptized by the spirit, the only difference again is Jesus name was. Not yet declared when John was baptizing ...
    Thank you for your answer. I will let both your and my posting stand without comment, and let the reader judge.

    Go well bro.

  12. #12

    Re: One Baptism

    For what it's worth, in Matthew 28:19-20, when Jesus says:

    Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    He says we are to be immersed in the name of the Father and the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Spirit. So the new water baptism (immersion) that we receive, is actually in the Father's name, the Son's name, and the Holy Spirit. Also we see in Acts 10:44-48 the believers get immersed in Christ's name after they receive the Holy Spirit. The event in Acts 2 when the Holy Spirit falls on the twelve was a special, particular event:

    Acts 2:3-4

    And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.


    We have one baptism into Christ. We don't get baptized with John's baptism anymore. But on immersion we "receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" --

    Acts 2:38
    And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    The eyes of the LORD are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.

  13. #13
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    baptism is a commandment ofmjesus Christ , it is not ceremonial , it's for the remission of sin ....this to the Jews after Jesus resurrection....
    Absolutely not. It is, in fact, ceremonial.

    1 Peter 3.21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.

    And no, it is *not* for remission of sin. Peter explained that the way we are saved is through what baptism "symbolizes."

    1 Peter 3.21 It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    **Acts‬ *2:38‬ *KJV‬‬
    The Baptism symbolizes the repentance that had already taken place through conversion to Jesus Christ. Public declaration, as well as public demonstration, of repentance is designed under the New Covenant to produce a Baptism into Christ, which John the Baptist called the Baptism of the Sprit.

    Baptism symbolizes repentance.
    Luke 3.3 He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

    John's Water Baptism was supplanted by Jesus' Water Baptism, which symbolized a Baptism into his Spirit.
    Mat 3.11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    the order is un important but water and spirit are required neither is ceremonial .

    this to the Gentiles after Jesus resurrection, note the remission of sins doctrine regarding baptism and what Peter was preaching to the Gentiles as they received the Holy Spirit

    “And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

    immediately Peter...

    Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
    **Acts‬ *10:42-44, 47-48‬ *KJV‬‬
    You are turning things backwards. The remission of sins came through believing in Christ--not baptism. The baptismal ritual followed to publicly demonstrate the person's choice to follow Christ from henceforth. It was the belief in Jesus that produced the salvation. The Baptism was simply a ritualistic testimony of what had already taken place within, and which Christ wanted followers to publicly proclaim. Baptism was the ceremony of that time, and still is. But it follows salvation. It is not in itself salvation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    it's why Jesus died

    “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
    **Matthew‬ *26:28‬ *KJV‬‬
    Jesus did not die so that we could get saved through Baptism. He died so that we could get saved through his Spirit, through his redemption. Baptism is simply a public proclamation of faith in that fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    it's why were baptized

    “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
    **Acts‬ *2:38‬ *KJV‬‬
    It was belief in Jesus that saved people. Peter simply required that salvation be followed by a public testimony, which at that time was salvation. That ceremony is still used today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    and it's why we can understand this

    “God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
    **Romans‬ *6:2-4‬ *KJV‬‬
    Water Baptism merely symbolizes our true Baptism, which is a Spirit Baptism. The true Spirit Baptism enables us to become one with Christ so that we may benefit from his righteousness and his redemption. That is what saves us--unity with Christ, and not rituals that merely portray, publicly, what we have already done within.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    its no ceremony and no one should make it un important it is a commandment ofmjesus Christ , and has very profound roots in scripture . There is baptism of water ....and there is the baptism of the spirit which comes through believing the word.

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
    **John‬ *3:3, 5-6‬ *KJV‬‬
    Rather than just quote Scriptures you need to also understand what they are talking about. It is the spirit that matters. The flesh and its rituals count for nothing if there is not true unity with Christ through the Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    we must be born of water through baptism for the remission of sins, and baptized of the Holy Ghost by believing the gospel the order of which comes first doesn't matter I've given you both orders in example baptism of water is for the remission of sins , we do it because we believe what the gospel says about Jesus and his blood, his death remitting sin and because it is his commandment there's no reason anyone should ever teach anything else about baptism but what the bible teaches , I'm not away pre of a single verse that suggests it's ceremonial or somehow unimportant it's a basic doctrine and the very first commandment Jesus gave in the great commission for all nations sort of a foundational act actually rather than mere ceremony
    Above I quoted from Peter, who said it was symbolic. We already know, by common sense, that it is a ritual, and an initiation ceremony into Christianity. And we also know that it *follows salvation,* and does not *produce salvation.*

    Furthermore, Paul made it clear that Water Baptism in the name of Christ is *not* the Gospel of Christ. It merely represents, symbolically, the Gospel of Christ. He therefore downplayed the ritual itself, in favor of what it actually represented.

    1 Cor 1.17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

    Clearly, to Paul Water Baptism in the name of Christ was *not* part of the Gospel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower
    “And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
    **Matthew‬ *28:18-20‬ *KJV‬‬

    it's really throughout the New Testament the doctrine of baptism for the remission of sins ...
    No, we hear of Baptism in a variety of places in the NT, but it is not central to the Gospel. It is merely symbolic of the Gospel, and is practiced by the new convert to show that he has already obtained salvation by faith in Christ, in his union with Christ spiritually. It is simply a public proclamation of the event of salvation, which is apparently important enough for the early apostles to teach it. But no, it is not necessary for salvation.

    If you continue to preach salvation by Water Baptism, you are corrupting the Gospel, which Paul told us is *not* the Gospel. You are descending into the abyss of legalism, depending on ritualistic ceremonies for your salvation. This will in the end separate you from Christ.

    You have to depend on *his righteousness,* and not your own, or by getting water baptized. But I'll let you decide what you wish to do. As long as we both believe Christ himself is the basis of our salvation I think we can maintain unity to some degree. But when you start adding other requirements you risk dividing Christians based on your own formulations of what Christian salvation is.

  14. #14
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    Re: One Baptism

    Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

    1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
    Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

  15. #15
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    Re: One Baptism

    Quote Originally Posted by mailmandan View Post
    Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

    1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
    Absolutely, the "one Baptism" perfectly corresponds with the "one Spirit." This is a spiritual reality that is being represented, symbolically, by Water Baptism. But more, it is a public proclamation by the new convert. Jesus wanted, and the apostles wanted, new believers to immediately make their conversion known publicly, both for their sakes and for the sakes of those they were separating from.

    "Water" was a symbol of cleansing. It was obviously symbolic because water only removes bodily pollution. But we are here talking about removing *spiritual contaminants!* Christian conversion is a spiritual reality, and Water Baptism for the Christian merely symbolizes that. The "one Baptism" is our baptism into Christ spiritually.

    To actually remove spiritual contamination, which is sin, one must become spiritually united with Christ, so as to partake of his pure spirit. Water does nothing, in this respect.

    I trust I'm not reading too much into what you're suggesting here?

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