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Thread: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

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    Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    The key is understanding the two horns upon the beast. These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin. He will return as a mighty warrior (aka 2nd coming) just as the Jews envisioned the first time.

    Rev 13:11
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    However Jesus tells us the HE is the real offspring of David. Note also he not only is morning star but the BRIGHT morning star. Hence the one claiming falsely to this heritage is also a morning star be it a DARK star.

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Hence like Jesus this second beast posing as the "Lamb of God" claims his heritage and is a combination of man and spirit (Demonic/Satan) and will deceive the world in thinking he is the true Savior. As for the horns there are a total of 12 between both beasts (aka 12 tribes) rightly divided 10/2. I am still in debate whether these 12 are the actual tribes of Israel or are they a counterfeit.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The key is understanding the two horns upon the beast. These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin. He will return as a mighty warrior (aka 2nd coming) just as the Jews envisioned the first time.

    Rev 13:11
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    However Jesus tells us the HE is the real offspring of David. Note also he not only is morning star but the BRIGHT morning star. Hence the one claiming falsely to this heritage is also a morning star be it a DARK star.

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Hence like Jesus this second beast posing as the "Lamb of God" claims his heritage and is a combination of man and spirit (Demonic/Satan) and will deceive the world in thinking he is the true Savior. As for the horns there are a total of 12 between both beasts (aka 12 tribes) rightly divided 10/2. I am still in debate whether these 12 are the actual tribes of Israel or are they a counterfeit.
    I would like to propose another scenario.

    Of the second Beast we learn from Revelation 13:11-17 that he is most probably Judas Iscariot. My reason is simple. The two Beasts are destined for "perdition", or, the Lake of Fire (2nd Thess.2.3; Rev.17:8, 19:20, 20:10). For this reason the first Beast is called, in 2nd Thessalonians 2.3, "the son of perdition". So also does the Lord call Judas Iscariot "son of perdition" in John 17:12.

    The question is rather, why a second Beast? Again, the answer seems simple to me. The first Beast is by all proofs, a Roman Caesar. He is a future Prince of the people that destroyed Jerusalem and its Temple (Dan.9:26-27), he is associated with a world power whose Capital is on seven hills, and the only king that had reigned during John's time, and whose Name adds up in the Greek and Hebrew letters to 666 is Caesar Nero. But there is a problem. The first Beast shuns the City on seven hills and seeks to set himself in the Temple in Jerusalem. The three great monotheistic religions of the world, Roman Catholicism (1.3 billion), Islam (1.6 billion) and Israel (15 million est.) all know that who gets Jerusalem, gets the world. Even Gog and Magog will know this. So the first Beast does not sit on seven hills for long but heads for Jerusalem while the ten kings who gave him his power desolate the Whore who sits on seven hills.

    But in Daniel 9:27 this first Beast "strengthens" or confirms "THE" Covenant with Daniel's People and its prominent mark is the "daily oblation". There is only ONE Covenant that Israel has that contains the daily oblation - the Law of Moses. Thus, the first Beast "strengthens" a Covenant that forbids him to enter the Temple. No man save the Israeli High Priest may enter the Holy of Holies, and that only once a year. So how will he convince the Jewish People occupying Canaan at the end of this age to make him like God and occupy the Holy of Holies. He needs an emissary who will "BETRAY" the Covenant of Law and convince his own people - the Jews, that the Beast is Emmanuel - God with us.

    In parable, the "sea" is the nations (Ezek.26:3-5), and the first Beast, being a Gentile Roman king "comes out of the sea" (Rev.13:1). Israel, though a nation, are designated as that land next to the sea - the "sand of the sea shore" (Gen.22:17). Thus, the second Beast must come out of the "Land", or "the EARTH" (Rev.13:11). To this Beast is given the ability to point Israel, and then the rest of the world, to the first Beast as Emmanuel. The worship of the first Beast, the Mark of the first Beast, the idol-effigy and the ultimate setting up of the first Beast in the Temple, is his special job - a job he sells with "lying wonders".

    Only two men in the Bible are called "the son of perdition" - the TWO Beasts. One is Caesar Nero and the other is Judas Iscariot. They combine to BETRAY the Jewish People, the Law of Moses and then the whole world.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    I would like to propose another scenario.

    Of the second Beast we learn from Revelation 13:11-17 that he is most probably Judas Iscariot. My reason is simple. The two Beasts are destined for "perdition", or, the Lake of Fire (2nd Thess.2.3; Rev.17:8, 19:20, 20:10). For this reason the first Beast is called, in 2nd Thessalonians 2.3, "the son of perdition". So also does the Lord call Judas Iscariot "son of perdition" in John 17:12.
    Where is Judas called the son of perdition in John 17?

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The key is understanding the two horns upon the beast. These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin. He will return as a mighty warrior (aka 2nd coming) just as the Jews envisioned the first time.

    Rev 13:11
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    However Jesus tells us the HE is the real offspring of David. Note also he not only is morning star but the BRIGHT morning star. Hence the one claiming falsely to this heritage is also a morning star be it a DARK star.

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Hence like Jesus this second beast posing as the "Lamb of God" claims his heritage and is a combination of man and spirit (Demonic/Satan) and will deceive the world in thinking he is the true Savior. As for the horns there are a total of 12 between both beasts (aka 12 tribes) rightly divided 10/2. I am still in debate whether these 12 are the actual tribes of Israel or are they a counterfeit.
    You are right about this beast being about Israel I see it as apostate Israel

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Where is Judas called the son of perdition in John 17?
    Perhaps you do not see Judas in verse 12, but what do you think of John 6:70-71, 13:18, Acts 1:16-20 & 25 and Psalm 41:9? Consider these and maybe it will be clear.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Perhaps you do not see Judas in verse 12, but what do you think of John 6:70-71, 13:18, Acts 1:16-20 & 25 and Psalm 41:9? Consider these and maybe it will be clear.
    Just as we are all sons of God yet there is only one Son of God. Likewise with the son of perdition.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Just as we are all sons of God yet there is only one Son of God. Likewise with the son of perdition.
    OK. Let's run with your logic. The ONE "Son of God" you allude to is obviously Jesus. Who then is the ONE "Son of perdition"? And if the ONE "Son of God" has brought forth many "sons of God", who then are the many "sons of perdition"? Let's start with scripture that points to "many sons of perdition". Can't find one??? OK, then we'll have to start with the ONLY TWO mentions of "the son of perdition" and show who they are.

    However, if this presents problems, let us return to your OP. In Revelation 13:11-17:
    • The combined houses of Judah and Benjamin a "he". This Beast is designated singular male at least six times with "he" implied by the grammar at least another three times
    • He is said to be a Beast - not a Lamb. He only has two horns LIKE a Lamb. Was Judah and Benjamin combined ever "Like a Lamb"
    • If two horns LIKE a Lamb make Judah and Benjamin a Lamb, then speaking "as" a dragon makes them a Dragon - or no?
    • He exercises the power of the first Beast. When and how will Judah and Benjamin exercise this power?
    • How will Judah and Benjamin cause all the earth to worship the first Beast when they are the so-called Lamb who should command worship himself
    • In Genesis 49 the prophecies over both Judah and Benjamin preclude them being a Lamb. One is a lion and one is "ravening wolf"
    • In Matthew 24 those in Judea - Judah and Benjamin - are warned to run away when they see the Beast. Where does their ability to be a powerful second Beast suddenly come from?
    • In Revelation 7 a select group of Judah and Benjamin are sealed by God's orders. Is God party to the second Beast by giving a protective seal?

    You see, my esteemed brother, your theory is fraught with difficulties.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    However, if this presents problems, let us return to your OP. In Revelation 13:11-17:
    Now the OP states that the beast CLAIMS to be from the house of Judah.


    [*]The combined houses of Judah and Benjamin a "he". This Beast is designated singular male at least six times with "he" implied by the grammar at least another three times
    [*]
    Was not Christ a "he" a root from the tribe of Judah?

    He is said to be a Beast - not a Lamb. He only has two horns LIKE a Lamb. Was Judah and Benjamin combined ever "Like a Lamb"
    [*]

    Was not Christ the lamb of God?

    If two horns LIKE a Lamb make Judah and Benjamin a Lamb, then speaking "as" a dragon makes them a Dragon - or no?
    [*]

    Sure he is still a dragon but posing as a lamb.


    The two horns are for us symbolize to understand who this lamb is mimicking. He is claiming to be a descendant from the southern house of Israel from the tribe of Judah AKA Christ. Now I do believe there are a literal 144,000 which arise in the last days, and as mentioned not sure currently if they align at any time with the beast.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Now the OP states that the beast CLAIMS to be from the house of Judah.

    [*]
    Was not Christ a "he" a root from the tribe of Judah?
    [*]

    Was not Christ the lamb of God?
    [*]

    Sure he is still a dragon but posing as a lamb.


    The two horns are for us symbolize to understand who this lamb is mimicking. He is claiming to be a descendant from the southern house of Israel from the tribe of Judah AKA Christ. Now I do believe there are a literal 144,000 which arise in the last days, and as mentioned not sure currently if they align at any time with the beast.
    OK: Thanks for your answer. I have the feeling we are arguing across each other. Shall we leave it at that? Thanks bro.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Sure he is still a dragon but posing as a lamb.
    He isn't posing nor described as a lamb. He is only said to be a beast with the horns of a lamb, and in the Greek it is actually the horns of a young lamb...as a beast he does not appear threatening is all the horns represent. It has nothing to do with any tribes of Israel or trying to look like a lamb. If I drew a cartoon of a bear that had lamb's horns you wouldn't say the bear was posing as a lamb.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  11. #11

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The key is understanding the two horns upon the beast. These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin. He will return as a mighty warrior (aka 2nd coming) just as the Jews envisioned the first time.

    Rev 13:11
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    However Jesus tells us the HE is the real offspring of David. Note also he not only is morning star but the BRIGHT morning star. Hence the one claiming falsely to this heritage is also a morning star be it a DARK star.

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Hence like Jesus this second beast posing as the "Lamb of God" claims his heritage and is a combination of man and spirit (Demonic/Satan) and will deceive the world in thinking he is the true Savior. As for the horns there are a total of 12 between both beasts (aka 12 tribes) rightly divided 10/2. I am still in debate whether these 12 are the actual tribes of Israel or are they a counterfeit.

    where did you get the idea the two horns represent the tribes of Judah and Benjamin?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The key is understanding the two horns upon the beast. These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin. He will return as a mighty warrior (aka 2nd coming) just as the Jews envisioned the first time.

    Rev 13:11
    11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    However Jesus tells us the HE is the real offspring of David. Note also he not only is morning star but the BRIGHT morning star. Hence the one claiming falsely to this heritage is also a morning star be it a DARK star.

    16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

    Hence like Jesus this second beast posing as the "Lamb of God" claims his heritage and is a combination of man and spirit (Demonic/Satan) and will deceive the world in thinking he is the true Savior. As for the horns there are a total of 12 between both beasts (aka 12 tribes) rightly divided 10/2. I am still in debate whether these 12 are the actual tribes of Israel or are they a counterfeit.

    where did you get the idea the two horns represent the tribes of Judah and Benjamin?

  12. #12

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He isn't posing nor described as a lamb. He is only said to be a beast with the horns of a lamb, and in the Greek it is actually the horns of a young lamb...as a beast he does not appear threatening is all the horns represent. It has nothing to do with any tribes of Israel or trying to look like a lamb. If I drew a cartoon of a bear that had lamb's horns you wouldn't say the bear was posing as a lamb.

    you don't think all the doctrine of the lamb beforehand , has anything to do with the fake Christ , appearing as a lamb? It's meant to convey the message , he will be claiming the position of Jesus Christ. A false church , he may appear as Christian leader but the difference is , what he says is like Satan....

    The way we can identify false doctrine , is by knowing what Jesus , the lamb said , knowing the types of things he says and approves....the opposite is the voice of the serpent....


    A chirch for instance promoting no need to repent, no need to obey the things Jesus said to do....it's the voice of the serpent . If it's opposite what Gid said , it's the voice of a dragon....even if a person may be telling you what the bible says , of they are telling you the opposite of what Jesus actually said , it may appear as Christian doctrine as coming from Christ.....but the voice tells the truth , Jesus will never contradict the gospel.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    you don't think all the doctrine of the lamb beforehand , has anything to do with the fake Christ , appearing as a lamb?
    The verse does not say the beast is trying to appear as a lamb just because the beast has the horns of a lamb. That in and of itself is not enough to show that particular type of impersonation.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    where did you get the idea the two horns represent the tribes of Judah and Benjamin?

    A while back I came to understand the counterfeit. The coming kingdom in which this false lamb will claim king of kings will be an replication. Hence the strong delusion. Many have debated about the horns of the beast but understanding the counterfeit and then seeing there are a total of 12 horns, 10 in the first beast and 2 in the second. Not only are there 12 but divided accordingly 10/2. Thus the two horns like a lamb represent the "claimed" linage of this lamb.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Jesus will never contradict the gospel.
    Will the AC contradict the gospel? Note he is claiming to be it's fulfillment. He will promote the Gospel.

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