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Thread: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

  1. #16

    Cool Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    He isn't posing nor described as a lamb. He is only said to be a beast with the horns of a lamb, and in the Greek it is actually the horns of a young lamb...as a beast he does not appear threatening is all the horns represent. It has nothing to do with any tribes of Israel or trying to look like a lamb. If I drew a cartoon of a bear that had lamb's horns you wouldn't say the bear was posing as a lamb.
    Oh yeah, why wouldn't I? If I saw a bear with lambs horns I would most certainly say it is posing as a lamb. I believe the second beast is the "son of perdition" pretending to represent Christ. The "Vicar of Christ" the pope himself.
    John 15:17 "These things I command you, that ye love one another."

  2. #17

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    These two horns represent the southern house of Judah, the tribes Judah and Benjamin.
    What are the grounds for that claim?

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Radagast View Post
    What are the grounds for that claim?
    1. The AC claims to be Christ. Christ the lamb of God from what tribe?
    2. As Christ, the AC would have rule over the (7) churches and (12 tribes) Israel which receive his mark. (7 heads would be equivalent to the 7 angels/churches)
    3. There are a total of 12 horns. 10 in the first beast, and two in the second. This represent those of Israel which follow him.

  4. #19

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    1. The AC claims to be Christ. Christ the lamb of God from what tribe?
    If you mean that the Antichrist claims to be the Jewish Messiah, that's not in the Bible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    2. As Christ, the AC would have rule over the (7) churches and (12 tribes) Israel which receive his mark. (7 heads would be equivalent to the 7 angels/churches)
    Huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    3. There are a total of 12 horns. 10 in the first beast, and two in the second. This represent those of Israel which follow him.
    What makes you say that the horns represent 12 tribes?

  5. #20

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    The correct understanding is that it looked like a lamb. The lamb is a metaphor for a Christian. It looked like a Christian, but it spoke like a dragon (it's doctrines were evil).

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by BCHYH View Post
    The correct understanding is that it looked like a lamb.
    It only has the horns of a lamb.

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  7. #22

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Brother , the second beast , comes preaching a false message about the first beast , causing them to worship the first beast the false messiah " who's deadly wound was healed ...the second beast serves the first beast the eighth king who comes twice. The first beast serves the dragon, Satan the spiritual being.

    the first beast is comprised of kingdoms and kings , 18 of them counting the beasts two comings. He is first among the 7 heads kings....then comes a second time , ruling the ten kings of the future, and uprooting 3 of them.

    note the succession the dragon is cast from heaven , then the beast appears, then the second beast appears serving the first...the false messiah we know who the false Christ is , because he appears slain and yet lives ...like the lamb on the throne. Note the dragons appearance and the first beasts...

    And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman ( Israel) which brought forth the man child. (jesus)

    And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, ( Jesus brethren ) which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:3, 7-9, 13, 17‬ *KJV‬‬

    the dragon goes to make war against the saints , but he is a spirit , so he accomplishes this through men , or rather successive kings who serve him ( the beast) note the beast is made after the dragons image, and the dragon gives the beast his power and authority to accomplish his will of warring against the saints ( which the beast does)


    " And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. .......and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

    And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    If any man have an ear, let him hear.


    see you have a mock of God , and jesus, the dragon gave his power and authority to the beast who appears dead but lives...this is a mock of God giving Jesus who was slain and lives his power and authority ....then the second beast ....this represents the false church that worships the beast ,mthe false messiah . Note , he speaks as the dragon, and is still using the dragons power he gave to the first beast, his purpose is to cause people to worship the first beast.....who is the false messiah .


    And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    Revelation‬ *13:3-4, 6-9 KJV‬‬


    the likeness into the lamb , is telling us his message is going to appear as Christian , but it will not be of God , it will be of the dragons inspiration.....in the end it will be a chirch that promotes sin , and refuses to acknowledge thier sins and repent of them ...this message will claim to be of the lamb, but the words will be of the dragon....

  8. #23

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    1. The AC claims to be Christ. Christ the lamb of God from what tribe?
    2. As Christ, the AC would have rule over the (7) churches and (12 tribes) Israel which receive his mark. (7 heads would be equivalent to the 7 angels/churches)
    3. There are a total of 12 horns. 10 in the first beast, and two in the second. This represent those of Israel which follow him.
    “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:3, 9, 13-14‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬

    17 total crowns , the beast is an extension of the dragon cast from heaven in the earth . It's why he appears the same image. To understand the imagery of the beast ....remember the woman was flown into the wilderness to her place earlier? But only to be nourished for a time? And then the beast rose up to serve the dragon who is enraged at the woman? Later the beast has caught her and is explained

    “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Note the beasts color is also a match to the dragon.


    And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    note this is a reference to the eighth king who ruled among the first seven beginning in Daniels vision, and who comes in the end to rule with the ten kings" this is the head which was killed but yet lived" the beast the false Christ ...of the dragon.

    And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
    **Revelation‬ *17:3, 7-18‬ *KJV‬‬



    note that five of the beasts heads , were already gone in johns time. They had already fallen. In fact the book of Daniel is where the first vision of the seven heads and the beasts likenesses appear hundreds of years before johns vision. Five kingdoms had come and gone pertaining to this vision between Daniels time of his visions , and johns time , one king the sixth , was currently ruling in johns day , and one more the seventh was to shortly come and rule briefly. Then the eight king is to come , the beast who was , is not , and will come again" and rule with the ten horns , they will give him all thier power in order to war against the lamb. Leading up to armegeddon and Christ's ultimate victory and the restoration of all things new.

    the book of revelation is a heave,y account of a cosmic conflict beginning in the heavens , and spilling into the earth . Just as the war begins in heaven when Christ was seated on the throne and then Satan was cast out into the earth ....then we see the earth being affected by the dragons spirit being in the earth , and the beast rises up , made after the dragons image , serving him in the earth, serving the dragons will to persecute both the Jew represented by Jerusalem the woman, and the Christian represented by the offspring of the woman, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    always remembering Satan is subtle , he deceives he doesn't crash down the door he creeps in the backdrop and mixes in amongst the crowd . He doesn't say " let's all rebel and sin against Gid and die .....he says " did Gid really say you must repent? Did God really say you need to get baptized? Did God really say the gospel is the same to Jew and gentile? Did God really teach us we need to look to Jesus for our learning and knowing Gods ways? Did Jesus really say u less we repent we will surely die? ...


    then when someone says ummm? Then he says " surely we don't need to repent of sin...Jesus died for our sins , we could never sin enough to change our salvation, were saved already what do we need to learn the gospel for ? ....a million variations of why it's different than what Jesus says .....because the only chance there is to be lost ....is to turn away from the things Jesus taught ....the gospel .

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    1. The AC claims to be Christ. Christ the lamb of God from what tribe?
    2. As Christ, the AC would have rule over the (7) churches and (12 tribes) Israel which receive his mark. (7 heads would be equivalent to the 7 angels/churches)
    3. There are a total of 12 horns. 10 in the first beast, and two in the second. This represent those of Israel which follow him.
    “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
    **Revelation‬ *12:3, 9, 13-14‬ *KJV‬‬

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.”
    **Revelation‬ *13:1-2‬ *KJV‬‬

    17 total crowns , the beast is an extension of the dragon cast from heaven in the earth . It's why he appears the same image. To understand the imagery of the beast ....remember the woman was flown into the wilderness to her place earlier? But only to be nourished for a time? And then the beast rose up to serve the dragon who is enraged at the woman? Later the beast has caught her and is explained

    “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Note the beasts color is also a match to the dragon.


    And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    note this is a reference to the eighth king who ruled among the first seven beginning in Daniels vision, and who comes in the end to rule with the ten kings" this is the head which was killed but yet lived" the beast the false Christ ...of the dragon.

    And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

    And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.”
    **Revelation‬ *17:3, 7-18‬ *KJV‬‬



    note that five of the beasts heads , were already gone in johns time. They had already fallen. In fact the book of Daniel is where the first vision of the seven heads and the beasts likenesses appear hundreds of years before johns vision. Five kingdoms had come and gone pertaining to this vision between Daniels time of his visions , and johns time , one king the sixth , was currently ruling in johns day , and one more the seventh was to shortly come and rule briefly. Then the eight king is to come , the beast who was , is not , and will come again" and rule with the ten horns , they will give him all thier power in order to war against the lamb. Leading up to armegeddon and Christ's ultimate victory and the restoration of all things new.

    the book of revelation is a heave,y account of a cosmic conflict beginning in the heavens , and spilling into the earth . Just as the war begins in heaven when Christ was seated on the throne and then Satan was cast out into the earth ....then we see the earth being affected by the dragons spirit being in the earth , and the beast rises up , made after the dragons image , serving him in the earth, serving the dragons will to persecute both the Jew represented by Jerusalem the woman, and the Christian represented by the offspring of the woman, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    always remembering Satan is subtle , he deceives he doesn't crash down the door he creeps in the backdrop and mixes in amongst the crowd . He doesn't say " let's all rebel and sin against Gid and die .....he says " did Gid really say you must repent? Did God really say you need to get baptized? Did God really say the gospel is the same to Jew and gentile? Did God really teach us we need to look to Jesus for our learning and knowing Gods ways? Did Jesus really say u less we repent we will surely die? ...


    then when someone says ummm? Then he says " surely we don't need to repent of sin...Jesus died for our sins , we could never sin enough to change our salvation, were saved already what do we need to learn the gospel for ? ....a million variations of why it's different than what Jesus says .....because the only chance there is to be lost ....is to turn away from the things Jesus taught ....the gospel .

  9. #24
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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Note the beasts color is also a match to the dragon.
    The beast's color also matches Christ.

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    The beast (man) is scarlet coloured. A scarlet robe claiming to be king. Here we also see Christ returning is a vesture dipped in blood (scarlet).

    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    note this is a reference to the eighth king who ruled among the first seven beginning in Daniels vision, and who comes in the end to rule with the ten kings" this is the head which was killed but yet lived" the beast the false Christ ...of the dragon.
    Agree. Christ is the "was" (heaven), "is not" (earth/hell), and "yet is (2nd coming)" and is the 8th king over the seven. The 8th head over the 7 churches.

    12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
    13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.


    note that five of the beasts heads , were already gone in johns time. They had already fallen. In fact the book of Daniel is where the first vision of the seven heads and the beasts likenesses appear hundreds of years before johns vision. Five kingdoms had come and gone pertaining to this vision between Daniels time of his visions , and johns time , one king the sixth , was currently ruling in johns day , and one more the seventh was to shortly come and rule briefly. Then the eight king is to come , the beast who was , is not , and will come again" and rule with the ten horns , they will give him all thier power in order to war against the lamb. Leading up to armegeddon and Christ's ultimate victory and the restoration of all things new.
    Understand John is seeing this vision in the FUTURE when the beast and the woman are together. This has not happened yet. Thus at this time the 5 heads have fallen thus the heads could still fall in the future and yet before this event in Rev 17.

    When we see the 7 heads in the four beasts and we understand the four beasts come up together and are part of the final kingdom (4th) upon the earth then we can have wisdom. The 7 heads are the opposing 7 churches in which Christ is the 8th, likewise Satan the 8th of the 7 mountains (his 7 churches)

    Lion - Head 1
    Bear - Head 2
    Leopard - 3,4,5,6,
    Beast 7

    So what John is explaining is the 7 heads will eventually give way to the 8th which is the vision John sees the beast riding the woman. However the 8th king is not from above though he is posing as such but is from below. The woman (city/heavenly Jerusalem) from heaven Rev 12 mistakenly takes this 8th as king and commits fornication.

    Did God really say the gospel is the same to Jew and gentile? Did God really teach us we need to look to Jesus for our learning and knowing Gods ways? Did Jesus really say u less we repent we will surely die? ...
    Satan has to promote the Gospel. His son is claiming Jesus on the throne.

  10. #25

    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    I really like discussing the Endtimes. Thanks for creating this post!

  11. #26
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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by BCHYH View Post
    The lamb is a metaphor for a Christian. It looked like a Christian,
    Is this what they teach at seminary today?

    The lamb is not a metaphor for a Christian, a biblical lamb is a metaphor for appropriation for sins, sacrifical offering per law.


    This is what the world will say when this beast with two horns is before them...…much more than merely a Christian

    The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The beast's color also matches Christ.

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    The beast (man) is scarlet coloured.
    That isn't the beast-man. That is the beast-kingdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    The beast's color also matches Christ.

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    The beast (man) is scarlet coloured.
    That isn't the beast-man. That is the beast-kingdom.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That isn't the beast-man. That is the beast-kingdom.
    Rev 17 is the beast man of the beast kingdom fornicating with the woman.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Rev 17 is the beast man of the beast kingdom fornicating with the woman.
    Nope. The beast with 7 heads (mountains) and 10 horns (kings with their own kingdoms) is clearly not a man. Only the second beast, one that had lambs horns and spoke like a dragon is a man. He is also called a false prophet.

    One always has to properly distinguish between the beast-kingdom and the beast-man. Obviously it will cause problems if one confuses the two.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: Second beast Rev 13 will claim to be a decendent of David from the tribe of Judah

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Nope. The beast with 7 heads (mountains) and 10 horns (kings with their own kingdoms) is clearly not a man. Only the second beast, one that had lambs horns and spoke like a dragon is a man. He is also called a false prophet.

    One always has to properly distinguish between the beast-kingdom and the beast-man. Obviously it will cause problems if one confuses the two.
    The beast man is the 8th head (king). the second beast of rev 13.

    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

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