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Thread: Change is Coming

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    Change is Coming

    Friends, we should all be aware of soon to happen, dramatic changes coming to this world. Many things simply cannot continue as they are for much longer.
    The Bible prophets tell us, in great detail of many things that will take place, leading up to the glorious Return of our Lord Jesus for His Millennial reign.

    Jesus said in Matthew 24:32-33, when the fig tree buds, then the present generation [those alive when that happens] will live to see it all. All meaning; prophesied events.
    The fig tree is a metaphor for the Jewish people, Jeremiah 24:4-7 and the only possible fulfilment of that prophecy is the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, in a small part of the holy Land.

    Jesus quoted the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His earthly ministry. Luke 4:18-21 He carefully left off the remainder of that chapter, for what was not to be fulfilled at that time was the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath.
    This terrible world changing Day, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:7, is what we can expect to happen in the near future. It will be triggered by an attack onto Israel by an Islamic confederation of peoples and nations and Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel and order their proxies to attack, but God will cause their weapons to explode upon themselves. Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 11:4-6, Joel 3:4, Jeremiah 49:35-37

    Many prophesies say how all those who believe in God and keep His Laws, should call upon His Name, [Jesus] on that Day and they will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    He will protect us; sending angels from heaven to save His own people, Psalms 57:1-3, Isaiah 43:2, as He did for the 3 men in the furnace; Daniel 3:19-27
    Then, we have the Lord’s promises of the gathering of His Christian people into all of the holy Land, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 66:18-21, Romans 9:24-26, to live there as He always intended; being His witnesses and sending out missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.

    Over 100 years ago, a teaching was promoted, saying that before any disasters would happen, God will take His people up to live in heaven and they would return with Him for the Millennium.
    This teaching is not found in the Bible, as Dr John Walvoord; a rapture proponent, did actually admit. Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively and in no way do they, or any other verses say anyone will go to live in heaven. Jesus refutes that false idea in John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.

    What we Christians are all exhorted to do when disaster strikes, is to pray for the strength and God given protection to survive that Day, 1 Cor. 10:11-13, 1 Peter 1:7 and to be found worthy to live in the holy Land, as the Israelites of God. 1 Peter 1:9-10
    Remember this truth: all the promises of God to Israel now applies to Christians. Galatians 3:26-29, 6:14-16 Jesus came to extend salvation to all who will accept it and now we are His people, bought by Jesus’ blood, chosen by Him and destined to be with Him on earth forever. Isaiah 49:8, Revelation 5:9-10

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Friends, we should all be aware of soon to happen, dramatic changes coming to this world. Many things simply cannot continue as they are for much longer.
    The Bible prophets tell us, in great detail of many things that will take place, leading up to the glorious Return of our Lord Jesus for His Millennial reign.

    Jesus said in Matthew 24:32-33, when the fig tree buds, then the present generation [those alive when that happens] will live to see it all. All meaning; prophesied events.
    The fig tree is a metaphor for the Jewish people, Jeremiah 24:4-7 and the only possible fulfilment of that prophecy is the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, in a small part of the holy Land.
    I doubt this. The prophecy does not say; "when you see the Fig Tree in existence". It says; "when the Fig Tree puts forth LEAVES". According to Genesis 3 the leaves of a Fig Tree are things that Adam and Eve did to justify themselves before God. Thus, the existence of Israel as a State in 1948 is not the fulfillment of that prophecy. The Law, which Israel use to justify themselves before God, can only be DONE when a Temple stands in Jerusalem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Jesus quoted the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His earthly ministry. Luke 4:18-21 He carefully left off the remainder of that chapter, for what was not to be fulfilled at that time was the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath.
    This terrible world changing Day, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:7, is what we can expect to happen in the near future. It will be triggered by an attack onto Israel by an Islamic confederation of peoples and nations and Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel and order their proxies to attack, but God will cause their weapons to explode upon themselves. Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 11:4-6, Joel 3:4, Jeremiah 49:35-37
    Contrary to this, the disaster comes when the shout is "PEACE AND SAFETY" - not war. (1st Thess.5:3).

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Many prophesies say how all those who believe in God and keep His Laws, should call upon His Name, [Jesus] on that Day and they will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    He will protect us; sending angels from heaven to save His own people, Psalms 57:1-3, Isaiah 43:2, as He did for the 3 men in the furnace; Daniel 3:19-27
    Then, we have the Lord’s promises of the gathering of His Christian people into all of the holy Land, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Isaiah 66:18-21, Romans 9:24-26, to live there as He always intended; being His witnesses and sending out missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus.
    "Protection?" "Safety?" "Salvation?" I think not. Revelation 20:4; "... and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; ... ."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Over 100 years ago, a teaching was promoted, saying that before any disasters would happen, God will take His people up to live in heaven and they would return with Him for the Millennium.
    This teaching is not found in the Bible, as Dr John Walvoord; a rapture proponent, did actually admit. Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively and in no way do they, or any other verses say anyone will go to live in heaven. Jesus refutes that false idea in John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.
    How can 1st Thessalonians 4:15.17 pertain to the end of the Millennium when the resurrection of the saints is set for "When He comes" (1st Cor.15:23)? You have just said in paragraph 1 above; "... the glorious Return of our Lord Jesus for His Millennial reign."

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    What we Christians are all exhorted to do when disaster strikes, is to pray for the strength and God given protection to survive that Day, 1 Cor. 10:11-13, 1 Peter 1:7 and to be found worthy to live in the holy Land, as the Israelites of God. 1 Peter 1:9-10
    Remember this truth: all the promises of God to Israel now applies to Christians. Galatians 3:26-29, 6:14-16 Jesus came to extend salvation to all who will accept it and now we are His people, bought by Jesus’ blood, chosen by Him and destined to be with Him on earth forever. Isaiah 49:8, Revelation 5:9-10
    In Galatians 3:26-29 only ONE promise is applied to the Church - that of inheriting the earth. It is "THE Promise" (singular).

    In Galatians 6:12-16 the context is a COMPARISON of TWO ANTAGONISTIC PARTIES
    • verse 12 (i) those uncircumcised who are goaded to (ii) be the circumcised
    • verse 13 (i) those circumcised who keep the Law, and (ii) those uncircumcised who are goaded to keep the Law
    • verse 14 (i) those circumcised who break the Law, and (ii) those who the circumcised would like to glory in
    • verse 15 (i) the Circumcision and (ii) the New Creature
    • verse 16 (i) those who walk according to the rule of the New Creature and (ii) those of the Israel of God - sons of Jacob of OLD
    • verse 16 The word "AND" is a conjunction. It automatically implies two or more things. The word "and" is also sequential. It implies one comes after the other. The word "and" is copulative. It implies an additional thing.

    For whatever reasons you have seriously misrepresented your two scriptures from Galatians.

  3. #3
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    Re: hange is Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Jesus said in Matthew 24:32-33, when the fig tree buds, then the present generation [those alive when that happens] will live to see it all. All meaning; prophesied events.
    The fig tree is a metaphor for the Jewish people, Jeremiah 24:4-7 and the only possible fulfilment of that prophecy is the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, in a small part of the holy Land.

    Jesus quoted the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-2a at the commencement of His earthly ministry. Luke 4:18-21 He carefully left off the remainder of that chapter, for what was not to be fulfilled at that time was the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath.
    This terrible world changing Day, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Revelation 6:12-17, 2 Peter 3:7, is what we can expect to happen in the near future. It will be triggered by an attack onto Israel by an Islamic confederation of peoples and nations and Iran will attempt to fire nuke missiles at Israel and order their proxies to attack, but God will cause their weapons to explode upon themselves. Psalms 7:12-16, Psalms 11:4-6, Joel 3:4, Jeremiah 49:35-37
    I just want to leave aside your reference to contemporary events, in the light of biblical prophecy, and focus on your interpretation of the "fig tree blossoming" in Matt 24. I will try to get back to your views on current prophetic fulfillment later, which may have some validity. I just don't believe that your reference to the "fig tree," holds up as a proof text in this regard.

    Jesus is, I believe, talking about the signs of the imminent destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in his own day. He was clearly predicting the fall of the temple, "stone by stone," and indicated that "all these things will take place in this generation."

    And so, the budding of the fig tree indicated that he viewed the Israel of his day as approaching what normally would be a harvest season, particularly with their Messiah in their midst. But instead, in the midst of what should be the harvest, Israel will be cut off. "All these things," ie the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, will take place.

    This is how previous prophets viewed this. They saw earlier times when Israel should've been entering into a "harvest time." And instead of enjoying the fruits of their labor, God brought judgment against them, spoiling the summer harvest. The leaves came, the fruit began to ripen, and suddenly the harvest was destroyed. That is what Jesus was talking about--not today's Israel. I will leave aside any application, by principle, of this to modern Israel today.

    Here are some of the applicable references...
    Isaiah 18.6 They will all be left to the mountain birds of prey and to the wild animals; the birds will feed on them all summer, the wild animals all winter.
    Jer 8.20 The harvest is past, the summer has ended, and we are not saved.
    Amos 3.15 "I will tear down the winter house along with the summer house; the houses adorned with ivory will be destroyed and the mansions will be demolished,” declares the Lord.
    Micah 7.1 What misery is mine! I am like one who gathers summer fruit at the gleaning of the vineyard; there is no cluster of grapes to eat, none of the early figs that I crave.
    Matt 24.32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Thanks Walls and Randyk. Your comments are predictable, nothing I can say will change your set opinions.
    Just one correction; Walls, I do not say that 1 Thess 4:17 is after the Millennium. I wrote: Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively.

    Sorry about the 'C' missing from the thread title, lost in transmission. I hope a Mod can fix it.

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Thanks Walls and Randyk. Your comments are predictable, nothing I can say will change your set opinions.
    Just one correction; Walls, I do not say that 1 Thess 4:17 is after the Millennium. I wrote: Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively.

    Sorry about the 'C' missing from the thread title, lost in transmission. I hope a Mod can fix it.
    Yeah. I've noticed that one cannot edit the title of the thread once it is started. But we knew what you meant. I wouldn't like to count all my typos to date.

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Thanks Walls and Randyk. Your comments are predictable, nothing I can say will change your set opinions.
    Just one correction; Walls, I do not say that 1 Thess 4:17 is after the Millennium. I wrote: Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively.

    Sorry about the 'C' missing from the thread title, lost in transmission. I hope a Mod can fix it.
    Did it for you .

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Thanks Walls and Randyk. Your comments are predictable, nothing I can say will change your set opinions.
    Just one correction; Walls, I do not say that 1 Thess 4:17 is after the Millennium. I wrote: Scriptures like John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess. 4:15-17 are touted as rapture proofs, but they pertain to the end of the Millennium and at the Return of Jesus respectively.

    Sorry about the 'C' missing from the thread title, lost in transmission. I hope a Mod can fix it.
    It's disappointing to me that you don't take seriously a valid interpretation of the text, particularly since I'm interpreting it *in context.* This also has tons of support from scholarship in history. I don't care that you disagree, but to just say my view is "predictable" is in itself "sad." Why shouldn't I be "predictable" if this is what I believe, and have substantiated it with all the proof I need? It is a valid opinion, brother.

    I really don't care if you want to write this off. The only reason I "fight back" is because I want others to not automatically accept your interpretation of this particular passage. In my view, it is transparently *wrong.* And I would point others the right way, if not you.

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    Re: hange is Coming

    Isaiah 34:1-8 Approach you nations and listen, let all the earth attend to this warning. For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations, His wrath and fury is against all their armed forces, they are given over to slaughter and destruction. Their slain will be thrown out, they will stink and their blood will cover the hills.
    [On that Day….] The sky will roll up like a scroll, the heavens will crumble into nothing and their starry host shall fall down, like ripe fruit from a fig tree.
    For My sword is prepared in heaven, it descends in judgement upon Edom, on those doomed for destruction. The Lord has a sword bathed in blood, ready to descend on the sheepfold and upon all ungodly nations. For there will be a Day of vengeance, a time of retribution to uphold the cause of His people. Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35, Psalm 18:7-15, Romans 1:18

    Psalm 46:8-9 Come, see what the Lord has done, the astounding deeds He has performed on earth. In every part of the world, He puts an end to war, He breaks the bow, He snaps the spear and burns the shields in the fire. Eze. 7:14

    Psalm 76:3 He has broken the flashing arrows and all weapons of war. [flashing arrows – a military metaphor for a nuclear weapon. All will be destroyed or neutralised.]

    Although these prophecies have usually been thought to happen at the Return of Jesus, the description of the sky rolling up like a scroll, matches exactly with the Sixth Seal: Revelation 6:12-17 & 2 Peter 3:7 & 10, a Day of worldwide disaster that will occur years before the Return. That judgement/punishment is the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the multi prophesied fire judgement. It is what we now expect very soon, as the fulfilment of Psalm 83 & Micah 4:11-12. As actual stars are many millions of miles away, perhaps the starry host referred to are meteorites or our satellites, that will crash back to earth.
    Nat. Geo. Oct 1990, p96: ‘The 1989 solar flare pushed satellites into lower orbits’.

    Isaiah 35:3-4 Hold yourself upright and be strong, fear not, for your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Job 22:30, Psalms 23:4, Psalms 118:14, Prov. 3:25-26, Jer. 30:7, Ezekiel 20:34, Nahum 1:7, 1 Thess. 5:4-11, Rev 7:13-17

    Isaiah 30:27-28 See the Lord comes from afar, His anger blazing and His doom heavy. Like a devouring fire, He sieves the nations for destruction. The sun will shine seven times brighter and the moon as bright as the sum, on that Day; when He saves and heals His people. Jer. 3:22

    Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this, coming from Edom, [the ungodly nations] from Bozrah, [the sheepfold, the countries of the Israelites in dispersion.] with His garments splashed in blood? I trampled the winepress of the nations in My fury, for I had resolved on a Day of vengeance and the time for redeeming My own had come. Daniel 12:1, Joel 3:13, Matthew 3:10-12, Acts 2:19-21, Rev. 14:17-20

    Revelation 7:1-9 After that, [the Sixth Seal judgement] I saw angels holding back any further punishments until the mark of God was set upon the foreheads of His servants…from every nation and language. Ref: REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

    We can see from the verses above, the terrible fire judgement is a CME sunstrike, that the Lord will use to punish His enemies and destroy their military power; is followed by the redemption and deliverance of His Christian people. They will be gathered and resettled into all of the holy Land. The Lord will ‘pour His spirit upon them’ and make a new Covenant with them.
    There they will live as God originally intended, being a ‘light to the nations’ and sending out 144,000 missionaries in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19, Isaiah 49:6, Luke 10:1-12 –[72 + 72= 144]

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    Re: hange is Coming

    The Sixth Seal
    Having established the fact that we are all prone to making mistakes and misinterpreting scriptures and as we all desire that the truth be made clear, I now ask that we look closely the critical issue of the Sixth Seal.
    Points to be considered:
    1/ Are the seals, trumpets and bowls a progression of events?
    2/ Have the first five seals been opened already?
    3/ Is the Sixth Seal actually the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath?
    4/ Is there a literal explanation of the Sixth Seal?

    1/ All the commentaries that I have perused and most of the Bible scholars I have asked, agree on the chronological sequence of the seals, trumpets and bowls. It is only those with the agenda of the next event being a war and all the wrath of God is to be poured out at the Return, who place them out of the sequence as given.
    Also a preterist will say it’s all past history or abrogated by Christ’s atonement.

    2/ Although some say that because the description of the four horsemen and how they have been released already, as in Zechariah 1:8-11 and Zechariah 6:1-8, do not exactly match that described in Revelation 6:1-8, then they are different events. However, I see this as just an attempt to maintain their beliefs, especially those who hold to a pre trib/wrath rapture.
    The Fifth Seal is telling those saints that have been martyred, they must wait until their number is complete. Matthew 23:35 Jesus said:...from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah... This significant quote confirms that the first five seals were opened after the murder of Zechariah and their number will be completed by all who have been and will be killed from the time of Zechariah until the Return.

    3/ The Sixth Seal matches quite closely the many prophecies of the worldwide Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, found throughout the OT and the NT. This event simply does not match the 3 clear descriptions of the Return of Jesus and what happens then. Zechariah 14:4-9, Matthew 24:30-31, Revelation 19:11-21
    As for thinking that because it is the people who say; ‘Fall on us, for the Day of wrath has come’, then it isn’t a true statement, this is totally unbelievable because they haven’t said it yet and it is actually a prophecy of Jesus, as given to John.

    4/ Prophecy should be understood literally, unless there is an obvious allegory and then it is most often explained literally in other passages. With hindsight and modern scientific knowledge, it is now possible to know what will happen and right now the fulfilment of Psalms 83:1-8 and Micah 4:11-12 is staring us in the face.

    The sequence of judgements/ punishments as revealed by Jesus to John in Revelation, will occur as written and the next event will be the Sixth seal, the Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the Day the Lord destroys His enemies. All the graphically described effects of a worldwide devastation will happen by the means He will use, a coronal mass ejection, Isaiah 30:26, which will literally fulfil all the prophecies.

    Be aware and be prepared, or remain ‘in the dark’, and be shocked and terrified when it does happen.

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