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Thread: 2 Have Fallen

  1. #1
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    2 Have Fallen

    Ok so there seems to be a disturbing trend of big name Christian leaders falling away from the faith. I have read two articles recently maybe it's 3 I'm not sure and it saddens me. I'm not quite sure how to feel about this because I understand what they are wrestling with. Even though I see many miracles happening I see so few people getting saved and so few people's lives being changed as evidence of the Holy Spirit living in them. Each of us struggles with sin in our hearts and our lives. My biggest sin happens in my heart when I get irritated with other drivers and I wonder where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit living in me? But I know when I am obeying the Holy Spirit and walking closely with the Lord and listening to him I see and I know that there is a real God whose Spirit dwells in me because I see the evidence when I am obedient. Maybe we just need to learn to teach obedience again and listening again. I don't know but there is something wrong with in the church and it is leaving us open for a great falling away as stated in scriptures that will occur before the Beast Rises up.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Ok so there seems to be a disturbing trend of big name Christian leaders falling away from the faith. I have read two articles recently maybe it's 3 I'm not sure and it saddens me. I'm not quite sure how to feel about this because I understand what they are wrestling with. Even though I see many miracles happening I see so few people getting saved and so few people's lives being changed as evidence of the Holy Spirit living in them. Each of us struggles with sin in our hearts and our lives. My biggest sin happens in my heart when I get irritated with other drivers and I wonder where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit living in me? But I know when I am obeying the Holy Spirit and walking closely with the Lord and listening to him I see and I know that there is a real God whose Spirit dwells in me because I see the evidence when I am obedient. Maybe we just need to learn to teach obedience again and listening again. I don't know but there is something wrong with in the church and it is leaving us open for a great falling away as stated in scriptures that will occur before the Beast Rises up.
    Who are the ones who have fallen way?

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Who are the ones who have fallen way?
    Two recent headline apostasies are Joshua Harris, author of the famous/infamous I Kissed Dating Goodbye.

    Now former Hillsong song writer Marty Simpson says he’s “losing his faith”.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Ok so there seems to be a disturbing trend of big name Christian leaders falling away from the faith. I have read two articles recently maybe it's 3 I'm not sure and it saddens me. I'm not quite sure how to feel about this because I understand what they are wrestling with. Even though I see many miracles happening I see so few people getting saved and so few people's lives being changed as evidence of the Holy Spirit living in them. Each of us struggles with sin in our hearts and our lives. My biggest sin happens in my heart when I get irritated with other drivers and I wonder where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit living in me? But I know when I am obeying the Holy Spirit and walking closely with the Lord and listening to him I see and I know that there is a real God whose Spirit dwells in me because I see the evidence when I am obedient. Maybe we just need to learn to teach obedience again and listening again. I don't know but there is something wrong with in the church and it is leaving us open for a great falling away as stated in scriptures that will occur before the Beast Rises up.
    It's not hard to see why. At least IMO. With the high level of appeasement mentality within the church also comes wishy washy faith. Faith that responds and bows to the new social norms (whatever they are – they change constantly).

    Continued real faith in Christ has always been determined by priority. By what we determine is most important to us. The parable of the sower and the seed. Each soil represents the priority we place on the seed (the Word of God – Jesus). Is He more important than persecution (rocky soil)? Is He more important then the cares of this world (the afore mentioned social pressures)? Or is He worth enduring through all that to bear fruit (it is those who endure to the end that will be saved).

    It can be disheartening to see others decide that relief from persecution or going with the flow of society (because of the pressure to do so) is more important that sticking it out.

    But it is a choice each of us must continually make every day. It can be easy to blame others and what they do in influencing our turning aside. But the truth is it is our choice to give up or endure not anyone else.
    "He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
    C.S. Lewis, "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe."

    "Oh, but sometimes the sun stays hidden for years"
    "Sometimes the sky rains night after night, When will it clear?"

    "But our Hope endures the worst of conditions"
    "It's more than our optimism, Let the earth quake"
    "Our Hope is unchanged"
    "Our Hope Endures" Natalie Grant

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Two recent headline apostasies are Joshua Harris, author of the famous/infamous I Kissed Dating Goodbye.

    Now former Hillsong song writer Marty Simpson says he’s “losing his faith”.
    These two accounts of apostatizing are not equal. Harris was a pastor for many years. His parents are major figures in the homeschooling movement. So the departure of Harris is of a 40-year-old man who was a pastor, has written several books and is a poster child of the home schooling movement

    All that aside, the tomb is still empty.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    And yet God is still in charge......
    Those who seek God with all their heart will find Him and be given sight. Those who seek their own agenda will remain blind.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Ok so there seems to be a disturbing trend of big name Christian leaders falling away from the faith..
    It's nothing new. Sad ? Yes. Unexpected ? No.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    It's nothing new. Sad ? Yes. Unexpected ? No.
    Amen.

    It’s nothing new. Doesn’t make it ok or that we shouldn’t mourn. But it’s as old as the first century for the church.

    Demas has abandoned me having loved this present world.

    In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity. - Rupertus Meldenius

    Read your Bible and pray every single day. - Pastor Jon Courson

    If your grace ain't greasier than a bucket full of chitlin's and gravy, you might be a legalist - an internet friend.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Old man View Post
    It's not hard to see why. At least IMO. With the high level of appeasement mentality within the church also comes wishy washy faith. Faith that responds and bows to the new social norms (whatever they are – they change constantly).

    Continued real faith in Christ has always been determined by priority. By what we determine is most important to us. The parable of the sower and the seed. Each soil represents the priority we place on the seed (the Word of God – Jesus). Is He more important than persecution (rocky soil)? Is He more important then the cares of this world (the afore mentioned social pressures)? Or is He worth enduring through all that to bear fruit (it is those who endure to the end that will be saved).

    It can be disheartening to see others decide that relief from persecution or going with the flow of society (because of the pressure to do so) is more important that sticking it out.

    But it is a choice each of us must continually make every day. It can be easy to blame others and what they do in influencing our turning aside. But the truth is it is our choice to give up or endure not anyone else.
    This is, I feel, an important word for us all!

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Two recent headline apostasies are Joshua Harris, author of the famous/infamous I Kissed Dating Goodbye.

    Now former Hillsong song writer Marty Simpson says he’s “losing his faith”.
    Thanks, this brings me back to the recent discussion I've been involved with concerning the possibility of becoming "unsaved."
    Notice what Sampson says, respecting the legitimacy of his former faith: "Unfollow if you want, I’ve never been about living my life for others."

    Get that? He *never* was about living his life for others. In that regard, he *never* had given his life over to Christ. He had only adopted the knowledge of Christ, and the lifestyle of Christ, which without the indwelling Christ, is no better than good works.

    And it's not as though the production of good works is bad--it isn't. But doing good works without the abiding Christ within is an exercise in futility. It does not achieve eternal peace. It is eternal fellowship with Christ that brings permanent peace.

    It's possible that Sampson actually did care at one time, and had Christ living within. But at some point he chose to deny Christ's lordship over his life, and thus ignore his internal conscience. In this case, he has succumbed to carnal weakness, and seeks to suppress the truth about Christ's dwelling within him. This will be a constant source of irritation to him.

    And listen to the lies he tells himself:
    "This is a soapbox moment so here I go … How many preachers fall? Many. No one talks about it. How many miracles happen. Not many. No one talks about it. Why is the Bible full of contradictions? No one talks about it. How can God be love yet send four billion people to a place, all ‘coz they don’t believe? No one talks about it. Christians can be the most judgmental people on the planet—they can also be some of the most beautiful and loving people. But it’s not for me."

    The reality is, many people do not want to talk about these tough issues. But many do make a living asking the difficult questions, whether it be James Dobson or Christian apologists like Hank Hanegraaff. Right here on this forum very tough questions are asked. The guy is not being honest--he's making excuses, because he wants to tell himself there are not answers that fit the conservative Christian model. He wants to live a more liberal lifestyle.

    I don't know enough about Josh Harris to say much, but I do suspect the culprit is weakness to liberal lifestyles, as well. He mentions he's softened to the Gay Community. He could be softening to sexual mores that he is contemplating indulging in. After all, he has just given up on his marriage. Since I don't know the circumstances of his divorce, he could be suffering disillusionment, or he could be rationalizing away his carnal lusts.

    The need is not to respond to the complaints of these apostates. Quite often the best remedy is just to cut them loose, and hand them over to Satan. I know that isn't the PC response, but it is one possible biblical response. They may want to be coddled, when their need is to get their way, express themselves, and find out that the darkness they defend is not what they thought it was.

    For ourselves, this amplifies our need to create a firm foundation for our Christian life, by learning to enjoy friendship with God. A good friend you will never abandon. If God is our "best friend," we will never give Him up.

    There is no love in the world like that. The knowledge of God's goodness fades away when people no longer live by the rules God gave for keeping that love. When these apostates learn that their so-called "new-found love" is not what it's cracked up to be, maybe they will come back like the prodigal son?

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by TrustGzus View Post
    Amen.

    It’s nothing new. Doesn’t make it ok or that we shouldn’t mourn. But it’s as old as the first century for the church.

    Demas has abandoned me having loved this present world.
    Amen. And we certainly shouldn't be flippant about it as though any of us have the power to remain in the faith. The Holy Spirit keeps us and yet we are commanded you examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith. Any one of us can experience a dry spell and be deceived or maybe even become lifted up with pride and those with pride don't usually see it in themselves...which is why a fall usually follows.
    What I'm saying is stay humble my friends and pray for those who have fallen and pray for yourself and those you know that do believe.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare. Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    "Lord I believe. Help me in my unbelief!"
    Mark 9:24
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Amen. And we certainly shouldn't be flippant about it as though any of us have the power to remain in the faith. The Holy Spirit keeps us and yet we are commanded you examine ourselves regularly to see if we are in the faith. Any one of us can experience a dry spell and be deceived or maybe even become lifted up with pride and those with pride don't usually see it in themselves...which is why a fall usually follows.
    What I'm saying is stay humble my friends and pray for those who have fallen and pray for yourself and those you know that do believe.
    I don't see anyone being flippant as it's a very serious thing. But it's still nothing new. The reason I say this is to give those who are easily discouraged by stories such as this young author, and could lose heart or despair. We need to prepare those who are young in the faith for such things as they are inevitable and have been going on for 2000 years.

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    Quote Originally Posted by Saved7 View Post
    Ok so there seems to be a disturbing trend of big name Christian leaders falling away from the faith. I have read two articles recently maybe it's 3 I'm not sure and it saddens me. I'm not quite sure how to feel about this because I understand what they are wrestling with. Even though I see many miracles happening I see so few people getting saved and so few people's lives being changed as evidence of the Holy Spirit living in them. Each of us struggles with sin in our hearts and our lives. My biggest sin happens in my heart when I get irritated with other drivers and I wonder where is the evidence of the Holy Spirit living in me? But I know when I am obeying the Holy Spirit and walking closely with the Lord and listening to him I see and I know that there is a real God whose Spirit dwells in me because I see the evidence when I am obedient. Maybe we just need to learn to teach obedience again and listening again. I don't know but there is something wrong with in the church and it is leaving us open for a great falling away as stated in scriptures that will occur before the Beast Rises up.
    Here is a good article from The Christian Post . https://www.christianpost.com/news/s...ise-songs.html

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    Re: 2 Have Fallen

    I can only speak from personal experience and my observance of others.

    I think the biggest problem anyone has in their walk is the continual inability to focus on God more than they focus on themselves. Personally, I find myself stumbling when I don't get out of my own way in order to see what steps God would have me take.
    Day by day
    Oh Dear Lord
    Three things I pray
    To see thee more clearly
    Love thee more dearly
    Follow thee more nearly
    Day by day

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