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Thread: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegals?

  1. #16
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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Wow. You really have it wrong bro. Obama wasn't pro illegal immigration, open borders or any of the mess the left are gushing about today. Where are you getting this from?
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  2. #17

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Wow. You really have it wrong bro. Obama wasn't pro illegal immigration, open borders or any of the mess the left are gushing about today. Where are you getting this from?
    Are you being sarcastic when you say you believe Obama wasn't pro illegal immigration?

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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    I'm not being sarcastic at all. It's one of the only things I liked about the guy as president.
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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by rom826 View Post
    Are you being sarcastic when you say you believe Obama wasn't pro illegal immigration?
    Do some research brother. He's dead serious. He backed spending millions on border improvements , fencing , and all kinds of other anti illegal immigration policies. CNN has amnesia about these facts.

  5. #20

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Wow. You really have it wrong bro. Obama wasn't pro illegal immigration, open borders or any of the mess the left are gushing about today. Where are you getting this from?
    This is very interesting to me, If you and Rom are any example, there is a diversity of opinion within the conservative community on what Obama supported, perhaps likewise the left doesnít monolithically support open borders. Perhaps such a view of the left is as off base as Romís view on Obamaís position & policy toward illegal immigration. I wonder if Rom will believe you or even acknowledge the possibility that his opinion is not nearly as informed as he believes it to be? I wonder if he will find it difficult to believe that he is misguided because he considers himself a person that can see through the BS.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    This is very interesting to me, If you and Rom are any example, there is a diversity of opinion within the conservative community on what Obama supported,
    It has nothing to do with opinion. We have not only presidents Obama and Trump's words on the matters we can see their actions as well. There is no grey area here.
    Both presidents took on illegal immigration AND the problems we have with legal immigration laws and both presidents have railed against both republicans and democrats refusal to address the issues and problems.

    I'm sure Rom is referencing the unconstitutional so called "Dreamers Act." That I disagreed with obviously and can't believe it's been allowed to stand for so long. Obama himself admitted he wasn't legally and constitutionally empowered to enact such a thing but did it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    perhaps likewise the left doesnít monolithically support open borders.
    Both elected democrats and republicans support open borders no matter what they say. Their refusal to tackle our laws and truly secure the border prove it. And they do so because they are bought and paid for by lobbyists and big corporations.
    That's not a conspiracy theory in the least. It's one of the things Trump ran on as a presidential candidate.
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  7. #22

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    It has nothing to do with opinion. We have not only presidents Obama and Trump's words on the matters we can see their actions as well. There is no grey area here.
    Both presidents took on illegal immigration AND the problems we have with legal immigration laws and both presidents have railed against both republicans and democrats refusal to address the issues and problems.

    I'm sure Rom is referencing the unconstitutional so called "Dreamers Act." That I disagreed with obviously and can't believe it's been allowed to stand for so long. Obama himself admitted he wasn't legally and constitutionally empowered to enact such a thing but did it anyway.
    It will be interesting to see if Rom was in fact referencing the so called "Dreamers Act".

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Both elected democrats and republicans support open borders no matter what they say. Their refusal to tackle our laws and truly secure the border prove it. And they do so because they are bought and paid for by lobbyists and big corporations.
    That's not a conspiracy theory in the least. It's one of the things Trump ran on as a presidential candidate.
    IDK Brian, by this same logic couldn't the so called "Dreamers Act" be used in the same way to insist that Obama was pro illegal immigration (no matter what he said)? Being "one of the things Trump ran on as a presidential candidate" is no in any way shape or form a way to substantiate something as being "not a conspiracy theory".
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    IDK Brian, by this same logic couldn't the so called "Dreamers Act" be used in the same way to insist that Obama was pro illegal immigration (no matter what he said)? Being "one of the things Trump ran on as a presidential candidate" is no in any way shape or form a way to substantiate something as being "not a conspiracy theory".
    True, however, we can not only look at what they've said but the actions they take as well. Both pushed for more deportations. Both tried to work with Mexico and other countries on the problems. Both had a hard line stance on illegals who commit other crimes while here in the states. Both tried to do as much as they could to secure the border. Etc etc.

    Both started their administrations with their party in control of Congress and neither got our immigration laws fixed, updated etc etc no matter how much they called them out on it and what pressure they put on them so both resorted to executive orders to do what they could.

    Both blamed the other party for the problems and inaction when they lost the majority too.
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  9. #24

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    True, however, we can not only look at what they've said but the actions they take as well. Both pushed for more deportations. Both tried to work with Mexico and other countries on the problems. Both had a hard line stance on illegals who commit other crimes while here in the states. Both tried to do as much as they could to secure the border. Etc etc.

    Both started their administrations with their party in control of Congress and neither got our immigration laws fixed, updated etc etc no matter how much they called them out on it and what pressure they put on them so both resorted to executive orders to do what they could.

    Both blamed the other party for the problems and inaction when they lost the majority too.
    I basically agree with you here, whether I agree with the methods or outcomes they both made serious efforts. I think that this thread illustrates part of the issue, that is it seems practically impossible for people to accurately access each-other's positions. The idea that Obama was pro Illegal immigration and that "the left" is largely pro open borders make it unlikely that anything could get done. Conservatives seem stuck in this belief and when it comes to "the left" it seems "no matter what they say" or propose or even what they actually do (or did), the belief about pro illegal immigration and open borders is maintained.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    Conservatives seem stuck in this belief and when it comes to "the left" it seems "no matter what they say" or propose or even what they actually do (or did), the belief about pro illegal immigration and open borders is maintained.
    These days, the majority on "the left" are openly calling for open borders, the dissolution of I.C.E., refusal to cooperate and follow laws already on the books along with "Sanctuary Cities," giving all sorts of aid to any and all illegal aliens etc etc.
    Many on "the left" have just as big of a problem with a lot of what president Obama did as they do with Trump. I seriously doubt Obama could get elected these days with the way the democratic party is being run and controlled and the attacks Biden himself has been hit with by those in his party.

    Things have changed drastically in a relatively very short amount of time.
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  11. #26

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    These days, the majority on "the left" are openly calling for open borders, the dissolution of I.C.E., refusal to cooperate and follow laws already on the books along with "Sanctuary Cities," giving all sorts of aid to any and all illegal aliens etc etc.
    I can only agree that this is the conservative belief, and the belief that the Republican Party has been promoting for at least a decade. It has been effective too, I would argue that your position that Obama was not pro illegal immigration is at least as common as not in conservative circles. From my perspective the confidence you have in your beliefs about the majority positions of the left is questionable given how prevalent and confidently held the Obama pro illegal immigration opinion is in the conservative community. It is fairly easy to find people just as certain as you are about Obama when we know they a demonstrably wrong, why are you so certain that your certainty is certain when you know your community is actively and effectively mischarcterizing the opposition in this area?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Many on "the left" have just as big of a problem with a lot of what president Obama did as they do with Trump. I seriously doubt Obama could get elected these days with the way the democratic party is being run and controlled and the attacks Biden himself has been hit with by those in his party.

    Things have changed drastically in a relatively very short amount of time.
    I agree that many on the left have and had a huge problem with Obamaís immigration policy, however I believe ther is a great deal of terrain between Obamaís policies and open borders, so much so that it cannot be taken for granted that being critical of Obamaís immigration policy is to be pro open borders etc. I think there are plenty of reasons to not be excited about Biden, I actively donít want him as president and it has little to nothing to do with immigration. I think that the fact that he still leads in the polls puts the question to your assertion that most of the left believes what you say they believe...it seems that if they did he would not be in that position. Moreover warren is polling at a close second, and unless you believe that her platform calls for open borders etc then I find it difficult to find the majority that you are referring to.

    We both agree that things have changed drastically though, weirdly I think everyone has agreed since 2008 at least that drastic change is exactly what was called for.. I get the feeling though that conservatives wanted to drastically change it back to some past ideal, and the left myself included is highly suspicious of the past.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  12. #27
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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I can only agree that this is the conservative belief, and the belief that the Republican Party has been promoting for at least a decade.
    I'm not sure if I can take this seriously or not. Do I really have to post links to democratic congressmen and congresswomen, governors, mayors, candidates for president in the upcoming election etc?
    It's not a conservative belief it's a provable fact and, please don't take this the wrong way, only someone who hasn't been paying a lick of attention wouldn't know exactly what I'm talking about.

    So, it's a legitimate question: Am I supposed to take what you wrote seriously - or are you just looking to extend the conversation or something simil;ar?
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  13. #28

    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I'm not sure if I can take this seriously or not. Do I really have to post links to democratic congressmen and congresswomen, governors, mayors, candidates for president in the upcoming election etc?
    It's not a conservative belief it's a provable fact and, please don't take this the wrong way, only someone who hasn't been paying a lick of attention wouldn't know exactly what I'm talking about.

    So, it's a legitimate question: Am I supposed to take what you wrote seriously - or are you just looking to extend the conversation or something similar?
    I Hadn't really thought about it in these terms, but I do actually believe what I wrote. How seriously you decide you want to take me I guess is up to you.I have no doubt that you can find examples of people on the left espousing the positions you described, but i'd bet my next paycheck that you have nothing that would approach substantiating the assertion that those are the positions of the majority of the left. i've been in enough spirited discussions about Obama's support of illegal immigration to understand that a motivated and "well informed" conservative has plenty of links to back that up too, even if they are doomed to fall short of actually substantiating their assertion. Weirdly, I'd wager that you've seen people do this too.

    I think its less a question of the amount of attention paid than it is a matter of the quality and diversity of what is being attended to. You seem to have avoided, or escaped the Obama pro illegal immigration trap, but there are others that are equally false, equally insidious, equally intentional and equally easy to be confident in.
    "The spirit of liberty is the spirit which is not too sure that it is right."


  14. #29
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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    You mentioned Elizabeth Warren earlier. Unless things change drastically I'm willing to bet she'll be the democratic nominee this election.

    She has a plan! Many of them in fact and they include things like:

    1. Decriminalization of entering the country without authorization.
    2. Forbidding states law enforcement from having anything whatsoever to do with immigration matters.
    3. Turning CBP and ICE into basically customs agents.
    4. Giving, or she would say acknowledging, immigrants (whether they applied for citizenship or just walked across the borders) "rights" and "due process."
    5. Free healthcare for all who are in the country period. Citizen or not and whether they immigrated legally or not. Everybody's covered!
    6. Greatly expand asylum parameters. Are you LGBT? Asylum granted! Have you been sexually harassed? Asylum granted! Has someone been mean to you? Etc etc.

    And finally ... I could go on but I'm bored with this already ...

    7. Completely change the court systems that handle immigration and even put in her own hand picked judges to handle cases. Because they aren't really immigrants regardless of the situation they're migrants with rights.

    Are the words "Open Borders" in there anywhere?

    No.

    Does that really matter?

    I'll let you answer that.

    The other candidates running who have a snowballs chance of being the nominee all have similar plans and agendas. So if you'll vote democrat this election, and you know you and the vast majority of democrats will, then these are the positions they will be voting to have enacted.

    I live in reality bro and even though I can play word games with the best of them if I wish to I'm way past that game.
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    Re: Why is the Trump administration not charging employers who knowingly hire illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveUlysesses View Post
    I can only agree that this is the conservative belief, and the belief that the Republican Party has been promoting for at least a decade. It has been effective too, I would argue that your position that Obama was not pro illegal immigration is at least as common as not in conservative circles.
    Just as the GOP took a hard turn right to appease fringe voices, the Democrats are having to do the same leftwards. The people who think Obama was pro-open borders just live in their own imagination I suppose; but equally there's a subset of centrists who are just in denial (or are apathetic) about the direction the D-party is going. Center-lefts might not like open borders, but now seem to be weighing the cost-benefit in "putting up with" a few wacky ideas for the greater overall picture. Sound familiar?

    Edit: What does confuse me is who certain candidates are listening to that they veer further left. I hadn't even heard TYT pushing this idea, and they are about as liberal as you can get. Maybe it's just a reaction proportionate to the anti-immigrant rhetoric of the far right?

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