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Thread: How necessary Baptism?

  1. #346
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I forgot how you answered whether or not you value commentary. Since your posts are commentary of your interpretation of scripture, let me post others:


    Ya know what... here is a link instead. You aren't allowing me to talk with you, nor anyone else for that matter (all your foes) so maybe you can allow all these people to talk to you about your position.

    https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_...hians/3-15.htm - A list of various commentaries dealing with 1 Cor 3:15
    Brother, you are as free as I am to write your understanding down. I have considered the commentaries of many expositors over the years of study. I even posted you what I consider as a good material. It is both you and our esteemed brother Pbminimum who mostly answer with one-liners. Surely, by now, if you had really read my posts, you would have known that my understanding of Baptism is well thought through, even if you disagree with it. I have commented on, and even expounded at least five, if not six, good reasons why Baptism is crucial - not to salvation, but to THAT for which we are saved, namely service to our Lord in this age and co-kingship with Him in the next and Millennial age.

    What is ominous is that explanation after explanation of mine was simply dismissed with a few accusations about me promoting Baptismal Regeneration. Never was sentence or paragraph parsed, bisected or dissected for its validity. It was almost as if you had decided what evil I promoted and all explanations were to be dismissed without comment. The fair judge would have taken sentence for sentence and said; "is this correct and true?" And if a thesis is twenty such sentences and they are all true, then there is a very good chance that the thesis is correct.

    This thread has been an exercise in futility. If I was a new Christian trying to gather information from well established brothers, what would I have gleaned from you and Pbminimum? Which of your postings outlines any one scriptural point concerning Baptism? So here, before I sign off from this fruitless discussion, is a summary of what I have written over multiple postings.

    (1) It is FAITH that causes, (i) one's sins to me set aside, (ii) one's fate under the wrath of God to be removed, (iii) rebirth by the Holy Spirit, (iv) one to be made partaker of the divine and eternal Life of God, (v) one to become a son of God, (vi) one to become seed of Abraham and HEIR to the world, (vii) one to be made member of Christ's Body, (viii) one to be resurrected when Christ returns, and (ix) one to be eligible to be the Bride of Christ.

    (2) Having this (above) treasure, we are COMMANDED to be Baptized in the Name of Jesus. FOR WHAT?
    1. Because God requires every man He calls to pass through a flood to leave the old behind (Josh.24:2, 14)
    2. Because God requires a circumcision for the seed of Abraham to keep His Covenant of Promise. Baptism has replaced circumcision for the Church (Col.2:11-12)
    3. Because the enduing of the Holy Spirit for MINISTRY is only had after the OBEDIENCE to Baptism (Act.2:38)
    4. Because to serve God we need a clear conscience (1st Pet.3:20-21)
    5. Because the body that sins so easily can be defeated by the new Life of Christ and this is to be shown with a sign (Rom.6:1-7)
    6. Because our present bodies are unfit for the Millennial Kingdom and need to be raised LIKE Christ's. Baptism is the authorization for this (Rom.6:1-7)
    7. Because God commanded it. Entry into the Millennial Kingdom is by OBEDIENCE (Matt.7:21). Thus, the first and foundational act of OBEDIENCE - Baptism, allows one to ENTER the Kingdom (Jn.3:3)*

    Despite your, and Pbminimum's constant accusations, NOT ONE OF THE SEVEN POINTS ON BAPTISM ABOVE INFRINGES OF ANY ONE OF THE EIGHT POINTS HAD BY FAITH FURTHER ABOVE.


    *I am aware that point #2 is essentially intertwined with point #7 and could be taken as one point.

  2. #347
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Brother, you are as free as I am to write your understanding down. I have considered the commentaries of many expositors over the years of study. I even posted you what I consider as a good material. It is both you and our esteemed brother Pbminimum who mostly answer with one-liners. Surely, by now, if you had really read my posts, you would have known that my understanding of Baptism is well thought through, even if you disagree with it. I have commented on, and even expounded at least five, if not six, good reasons why Baptism is crucial - not to salvation, but to THAT for which we are saved, namely service to our Lord in this age and co-kingship with Him in the next and Millennial age.

    What is ominous is that explanation after explanation of mine was simply dismissed with a few accusations about me promoting Baptismal Regeneration. Never was sentence or paragraph parsed, bisected or dissected for its validity. It was almost as if you had decided what evil I promoted and all explanations were to be dismissed without comment. The fair judge would have taken sentence for sentence and said; "is this correct and true?" And if a thesis is twenty such sentences and they are all true, then there is a very good chance that the thesis is correct.

    This thread has been an exercise in futility. If I was a new Christian trying to gather information from well established brothers, what would I have gleaned from you and Pbminimum? Which of your postings outlines any one scriptural point concerning Baptism? So here, before I sign off from this fruitless discussion, is a summary of what I have written over multiple postings.

    (1) It is FAITH that causes, (i) one's sins to me set aside, (ii) one's fate under the wrath of God to be removed, (iii) rebirth by the Holy Spirit, (iv) one to be made partaker of the divine and eternal Life of God, (v) one to become a son of God, (vi) one to become seed of Abraham and HEIR to the world, (vii) one to be made member of Christ's Body, (viii) one to be resurrected when Christ returns, and (ix) one to be eligible to be the Bride of Christ.

    (2) Having this (above) treasure, we are COMMANDED to be Baptized in the Name of Jesus. FOR WHAT?
    1. Because God requires every man He calls to pass through a flood to leave the old behind (Josh.24:2, 14)
    2. Because God requires a circumcision for the seed of Abraham to keep His Covenant of Promise. Baptism has replaced circumcision for the Church (Col.2:11-12)
    3. Because the enduing of the Holy Spirit for MINISTRY is only had after the OBEDIENCE to Baptism (Act.2:38)
    4. Because to serve God we need a clear conscience (1st Pet.3:20-21)
    5. Because the body that sins so easily can be defeated by the new Life of Christ and this is to be shown with a sign (Rom.6:1-7)
    6. Because our present bodies are unfit for the Millennial Kingdom and need to be raised LIKE Christ's. Baptism is the authorization for this (Rom.6:1-7)
    7. Because God commanded it. Entry into the Millennial Kingdom is by OBEDIENCE (Matt.7:21). Thus, the first and foundational act of OBEDIENCE - Baptism, allows one to ENTER the Kingdom (Jn.3:3)*

    Despite your, and Pbminimum's constant accusations, NOT ONE OF THE SEVEN POINTS ON BAPTISM ABOVE INFRINGES OF ANY ONE OF THE EIGHT POINTS HAD BY FAITH FURTHER ABOVE.


    *I am aware that point #2 is essentially intertwined with point #7 and could be taken as one point.
    So I understand... a person who believes but does not get baptized, will they be in heaven with eternal life?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  3. #348
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Brother, you are as free as I am to write your understanding down. I have considered the commentaries of many expositors over the years of study. I even posted you what I consider as a good material. It is both you and our esteemed brother Pbminimum who mostly answer with one-liners. Surely, by now, if you had really read my posts, you would have known that my understanding of Baptism is well thought through, even if you disagree with it. I have commented on, and even expounded at least five, if not six, good reasons why Baptism is crucial - not to salvation, but to THAT for which we are saved, namely service to our Lord in this age and co-kingship with Him in the next and Millennial age.

    What is ominous is that explanation after explanation of mine was simply dismissed with a few accusations about me promoting Baptismal Regeneration. Never was sentence or paragraph parsed, bisected or dissected for its validity. It was almost as if you had decided what evil I promoted and all explanations were to be dismissed without comment. The fair judge would have taken sentence for sentence and said; "is this correct and true?" And if a thesis is twenty such sentences and they are all true, then there is a very good chance that the thesis is correct.

    This thread has been an exercise in futility. If I was a new Christian trying to gather information from well established brothers, what would I have gleaned from you and Pbminimum? Which of your postings outlines any one scriptural point concerning Baptism? So here, before I sign off from this fruitless discussion, is a summary of what I have written over multiple postings.

    (1) It is FAITH that causes, (i) one's sins to me set aside, (ii) one's fate under the wrath of God to be removed, (iii) rebirth by the Holy Spirit, (iv) one to be made partaker of the divine and eternal Life of God, (v) one to become a son of God, (vi) one to become seed of Abraham and HEIR to the world, (vii) one to be made member of Christ's Body, (viii) one to be resurrected when Christ returns, and (ix) one to be eligible to be the Bride of Christ.

    (2) Having this (above) treasure, we are COMMANDED to be Baptized in the Name of Jesus. FOR WHAT?
    1. Because God requires every man He calls to pass through a flood to leave the old behind (Josh.24:2, 14)
    2. Because God requires a circumcision for the seed of Abraham to keep His Covenant of Promise. Baptism has replaced circumcision for the Church (Col.2:11-12)
    3. Because the enduing of the Holy Spirit for MINISTRY is only had after the OBEDIENCE to Baptism (Act.2:38)
    4. Because to serve God we need a clear conscience (1st Pet.3:20-21)
    5. Because the body that sins so easily can be defeated by the new Life of Christ and this is to be shown with a sign (Rom.6:1-7)
    6. Because our present bodies are unfit for the Millennial Kingdom and need to be raised LIKE Christ's. Baptism is the authorization for this (Rom.6:1-7)
    7. Because God commanded it. Entry into the Millennial Kingdom is by OBEDIENCE (Matt.7:21). Thus, the first and foundational act of OBEDIENCE - Baptism, allows one to ENTER the Kingdom (Jn.3:3)*

    Despite your, and Pbminimum's constant accusations, NOT ONE OF THE SEVEN POINTS ON BAPTISM ABOVE INFRINGES OF ANY ONE OF THE EIGHT POINTS HAD BY FAITH FURTHER ABOVE.


    *I am aware that point #2 is essentially intertwined with point #7 and could be taken as one point.
    So I understand... a person who believes but does not get baptized, will they be in heaven with eternal life?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  4. #349
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    So I understand... a person who believes but does not get baptized, will they be in heaven with eternal life?
    Don't expect an answer. Expect a super long post that says more of the same. I still don't know why it's so hard for some to state what they believe in a condensed version after it's asked for time after time.

    Does Jesus blood justify ? - no answer.

    Do works justify > - no answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    So I understand... a person who believes but does not get baptized, will they be in heaven with eternal life?
    Don't expect an answer. Expect a super long post that says more of the same. I still don't know why it's so hard for some to state what they believe in a condensed version after it's asked for time after time.

    Does Jesus blood justify ? - no answer.

    Do works justify > - no answer.

  5. #350
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    Your opinion is duly noted, but it is not Biblical in any way. Water immersion symbolized our death, from which we arise to walk a new life (Col 2:12). It was commanded of Saul after he had sat, blind and fasting, for three days so that his sins would be forgiven (Acts 22:16). It was the last command Jesus gave before His ascension into Heaven (Matt 28:19-20).
    You note my opinion--fine. But you should note the verses I refer to. That's the important thing. When you say "water immersion symbolized our death," you are saying just what I said, that Water Baptism is *symbolic* of our Salvation. There is no argument in this.

    As for Jesus' command to his 11 apostles to proclaim the Gospel and to Water Baptize, this is undoubtedly a command. But it was given primarily to the *11 apostles* in their initial mission to take the Gospel beyond Israel and into the Gentile World.

    There is absolutely no explicit theology in the NT epistles that indicate Water Baptism is essential in the Christian life. It is presented purely as an initiation ceremony to provide public testimony to our Christian conversion. It is purely symbolic of the Salvation that was received previously and which alone is essential.

    Confessions are, of course, important in our Salvation. But they may take many forms, including Water Baptism. Requiring Water Baptism initially in the ministry of the 11 Apostles is *not* the same thing as requiring it of *all* Christian ministries, and not the same thing as requiring it in perpetuity or in all circumstances. For example, there is no indication that either the 11 Apostles or future ministers would be required to Water Baptize anybody who had already been raised as Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents
    As an example of the necessity of water immersion, I point you to Naaman. Read his story in 2 Kings 5. What was the power that cleansed him of his leprosy? Obviously, the answer is the Power of God. When was his leprosy cleansed? The answer is, after he was obedient to the command of God through His servant Elisha. Now I ask you, would Naaman have been cleansed if he had not obeyed? The obvious answer is, NO!! He would have lived the rest of his life and died as a leper. This is an obvious example, but there are many more in Scripture where the blessing was only received after the recipient was obedient to the command of God. We also see many examples of people who were denied the blessing because they were not obedient to the command.
    I agree that God does ask specific things of individuals in the process of receiving healing or even in the process of receiving Salvation, such as in the case of the Rich Young Ruler where God required him to give up his wealth. None of this means that all have to give up their wealth or to get "baptized" in the Jordan River in order to receive something from God.

  6. #351
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Don't expect an answer. Expect a super long post that says more of the same. I still don't know why it's so hard for some to state what they believe in a condensed version after it's asked for time after time.

    Does Jesus blood justify ? - no answer.

    Do works justify > - no answer.



    Don't expect an answer. Expect a super long post that says more of the same. I still don't know why it's so hard for some to state what they believe in a condensed version after it's asked for time after time.

    Does Jesus blood justify ? - no answer.

    Do works justify > - no answer.
    I do agree that when someone cannot enter someone else's argument into his own systematic theology, and can only argue by repeating that same theology, that theology is suspect. And even if the response is a repeat of the same belief, it would be helpful if acknowledgement is made of what the critical elements are in the opposing arguments. But we don't seem to get that.

    I think Walls' burden is to say that beyond mere Salvation the Christian has need to do works. And there is no question about this. In my own theology, there is even a kind of work--a unique kind of work--necessary in the process of receiving Salvation that we must do. For example, the Rich Young Ruler was required to give up his wealth, showing his confession of the need for Christ's life in place of his own carnal life.

    But none of us are even arguing this. We all know Christian conversion requires a change in lifestyle, a change in "works," if you will. So what is the real problem? It is that Walls continues to assert that Christian Works are necessary for Christians to enter into Christ's Kingdom, while other Christians, with failing Works, are somehow relegated to a lower level of God's universe, in the place where they only inherit Eternal Life, but do not actually enter into God's Kingdom.

    None of this, however, is in Scriptures. And arguments against him in this respect are not apparently recognized by him. He only asserts that examples of those who reject Salvation are actually Christians who fail to enter into God's Kingdom, and still obtain Eternal Life!

    It's tough to argue against such convoluted invention! It is purely an insertion into Scripture and simply an assertion that it is so. The arguments against this should be acknowledged by Walls, as opposed to just refuting by a repeat of the same false Theology.

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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    You note my opinion--fine. But you should note the verses I refer to. That's the important thing. When you say "water immersion symbolized our death," you are saying just what I said, that Water Baptism is *symbolic* of our Salvation. There is no argument in this.

    As for Jesus' command to his 11 apostles to proclaim the Gospel and to Water Baptize, this is undoubtedly a command. But it was given primarily to the *11 apostles* in their initial mission to take the Gospel beyond Israel and into the Gentile World.

    There is absolutely no explicit theology in the NT epistles that indicate Water Baptism is essential in the Christian life. It is presented purely as an initiation ceremony to provide public testimony to our Christian conversion. It is purely symbolic of the Salvation that was received previously and which alone is essential.

    Confessions are, of course, important in our Salvation. But they may take many forms, including Water Baptism. Requiring Water Baptism initially in the ministry of the 11 Apostles is *not* the same thing as requiring it of *all* Christian ministries, and not the same thing as requiring it in perpetuity or in all circumstances. For example, there is no indication that either the 11 Apostles or future ministers would be required to Water Baptize anybody who had already been raised as Christians.
    And you ignore the verses to which I referred. Not only does immersion symbolize our death, it is water immersion from which we arise as new creatures having been born again through the symbolic immersion in Christ' Blood. This is declared twice in Paul's writing, Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:9-15. And the way he speaks of baptism shows clearly that it was preached routinely in the first century as a common (as in often done, not as in ordinary), necessary, and required part of rebirth in Christ.



    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree that God does ask specific things of individuals in the process of receiving healing or even in the process of receiving Salvation, such as in the case of the Rich Young Ruler where God required him to give up his wealth. None of this means that all have to give up their wealth or to get "baptized" in the Jordan River in order to receive something from God.
    What is the one thing common to all the things asked of everyone in Scripture (ie: the rich young ruler and Naaman)? Answer: give up whatever it is that comes between you and God and surrender your life to Him. The rich young ruler valued his wealth more than he valued salvation through Christ. That is why he went away sad. At first Naaman valued his pride more than he valued his health, but his servant convinced him that his health was of more value. And when he obeyed he rejoiced because he found his health and a beginning of a relationship with God. The same holds true for us today. Whatever it is that is standing between us and God needs to be cast aside in order for us to have the relationship He wants with us. For some it is wealth, for others it is pride, for others it is the lie that Satan weaves that we can be saved simply by believing in Jesus. Belief is essential, but it is just the beginning, not the end of the journey.

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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Originally Posted by Doug Brents

    And you ignore the verses to which I referred. Not only does immersion symbolize our death, it is water immersion from which we arise as new creatures having been born again through the symbolic immersion in Christ' Blood. This is declared twice in Paul's writing, Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:9-15. And the way he speaks of baptism shows clearly that it was preached routinely in the first century as a common (as in often done, not as in ordinary), necessary, and required part of rebirth in Christ.

    Out old self dies and our new self is born when we are born-again. This happens when one is redeemed by Christ at the instant a person believes in Him. Water baptism is a faithful action in symbolization of what Christ has done. The baptism itself does not make a person a "new person" when they rise up out of water. It is a new person in Christ who is allowed to do the action of baptism.

    After a person is made new, they BEGIN to conform to Christ. Meaning, He died and He was raised and we have to do something showing that we have begun to conform to this element of Christ-likeness. Thus the FIRST action we do to show conformity, is to be baptized in water. This action does not SAVE us, the action shows the world we are like Christ.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  9. #354
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    There is a verse that states ALL works can be burned up, but the person will STILL be saved.

    Edit... wait, your verse is that verse

    One can walk away from the JS with nothing BUT their eternal life with Christ but at least they are still with Christ.

    Walls does not believe this
    Then he is wrong.

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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Out old self dies and our new self is born when we are born-again. This happens when one is redeemed by Christ at the instant a person believes in Him. Water baptism is a faithful action in symbolization of what Christ has done. The baptism itself does not make a person a "new person" when they rise up out of water. It is a new person in Christ who is allowed to do the action of baptism.
    Then the demons will be saved? If we are saved at the point of belief, then the demons will be saved, James 2:19. No, belief is essential, but that belief must cause us to obey. Without obedience, our belief is dead and worthless, as it is with the demons.

    You are trying to say that the new person goes into the water and the same new person emerges. But that is not what Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:9-15 say. They both say that the old man, the man lost in sin goes into the water, and the new, clean, saved person emerges.

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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    Then the demons will be saved? If we are saved at the point of belief, then the demons will be saved, James 2:19. No, belief is essential, but that belief must cause us to obey. Without obedience, our belief is dead and worthless, as it is with the demons.

    You are trying to say that the new person goes into the water and the same new person emerges. But that is not what Rom 6:1-7, and Col 2:9-15 say. They both say that the old man, the man lost in sin goes into the water, and the new, clean, saved person emerges.
    I made an edit while you were posting. So here is the edit portion.

    After a person is made new, they BEGIN to conform to Christ. Meaning, He died and He was raised and we have to do something showing that we have begun to conform to this element of Christ-likeness. Thus the FIRST action we do to show conformity, is to be baptized in water. This action does not SAVE us, the action shows the world we are like Christ.

    Then the demons will be saved?
    If you are going to drop this card as a child would, shall I ignore your immaturity or are you willing for maturity and get past this immature action?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Who shall we believe?

    Matthew 7:21: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that DOES the will of my Father which is in heaven."

    Matthew 5:20: "For I say unto you, That except YOUR righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

    Matthew 11:12: "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

    Matthew 13:44: "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field."

    Matthew 22:2-14:
    2 "The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
    ....
    11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
    12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
    ....
    14 For many are called, but few are chosen."


    A "garment" in Parable is one's WORKS (Rev.19:8)

    Matthew 25:14-16:
    14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
    15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
    16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents."


    And how is one refused entry to the Kingdom?

    1st Corinthians 6:9-10:
    9 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."


    1 Corinthians 6:9: "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"

    Galatians 5:21: "Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    Ephesians 5:5: "For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

    And the Kingdom is gained by:-

    Colossians 4:11: "And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me."

    and suffering

    Acts 14:22: "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."

    2 Thessalonians 1:5: "Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:"

    My brother Trivalee, you had better read and learn these verses off by heart lest you be called a preacher of false doctrine and lead many a Christian astray. And then you can do a search of all the scriptures pertaining to the Kingdom and you will see that ENTRY INTO THE KINGDOM IS BY WORKS IN EVERY CASE!
    Who shall we believe? Ans: the scriptures, of course. What I disagree is your errant interpretation of the scriptures.

  13. #358
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    If you are going to drop this card as a child would, shall I ignore your immaturity or are you willing for maturity and get past this immature action?
    That is a question. If the end result of your belief structure is an impossibility, then there is a fault in your belief structure. Thus, if belief is all that is required for salvation, and Scripture says the demons believe in God, then the demons will be saved too. But we know that the demons won't be saved. Thus belief cannot be all that is required. We must turn back to Scripture and find what else is required. And I have demonstrated those things at length in other threads. Belief, Repentance, Confession of the Name of Christ, and Baptism. Then our walk with Christ can begin and we can begin to conform to His likeness.

  14. #359
    Join Date
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Question for you: When was Saul, later known as Paul the Apostle, saved?

  15. #360
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
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    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    That is a question. If the end result of your belief structure is an impossibility, then there is a fault in your belief structure. Thus, if belief is all that is required for salvation, and Scripture says the demons believe in God, then the demons will be saved too. But we know that the demons won't be saved. Thus belief cannot be all that is required. We must turn back to Scripture and find what else is required. And I have demonstrated those things at length in other threads. Belief, Repentance, Confession of the Name of Christ, and Baptism. Then our walk with Christ can begin and we can begin to conform to His likeness.
    The belief that demons have in God, is not provided by grace and faith. The belief that mankind can have in God IS provided by grace and faith. So again... are we gonna stop with the "the demons believe" card?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


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