Page 34 of 39 FirstFirst ... 2324252627282930313233343536373839 LastLast
Results 496 to 510 of 576

Thread: How necessary Baptism?

  1. #496
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I know of child baptisms where the parents do not have faith in God, they "do it" because it is a "good thing" to do and for the "sake" of the baby, they go through the motions... and to satisfy the grandparents (who won't stop nagging) who insist the new baby should be baptized.
    OK, while this is not the norm, it still does not nullify the promise of God. So I must say that the child would be in covenant with God and only shows God's mercy and grace.

    Would people who chose to be baptized, but not because of faith but only because they want to be part of their friends/community who are baptized or being baptized, be baptized again if they truly would come to faith?

  2. #497
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,917
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    OK, while this is not the norm, it still does not nullify the promise of God. So I must say that the child would be in covenant with God and only shows God's mercy and grace.

    Would people who chose to be baptized, but not because of faith but only because they want to be part of their friends/community who are baptized or being baptized, be baptized again if they truly would come to faith?
    While I do believe in "age of accountability," all I can conclude from your post is that when a person who cannot yet believe (example, an infant), IS saved when a man baptizes them AND when a person CAN make a conscious choice to believe, IS NOT saved... until a man baptizes them in water.

    Do you believe this?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  3. #498
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,917
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    OK, while this is not the norm, it still does not nullify the promise of God. So I must say that the child would be in covenant with God and only shows God's mercy and grace.

    Would people who chose to be baptized, but not because of faith but only because they want to be part of their friends/community who are baptized or being baptized, be baptized again if they truly would come to faith?
    While I do believe in "age of accountability," all I can conclude from your post is that when a person who cannot yet believe (example, an infant), IS saved when a man baptizes them AND when a person CAN make a conscious choice to believe, IS NOT saved... until a man baptizes them in water.

    Do you believe this?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  4. #499
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    While I do believe in "age of accountability," all I can conclude from your post is that when a person who cannot yet believe (example, an infant), IS saved when a man baptizes them AND when a person CAN make a conscious choice to believe, IS NOT saved... until a man baptizes them in water.

    Do you believe this?
    I believe that covenant children are saved, not all children. I do not believe that baptism saves. So a child who were baptized must still confess their faith to be saved and this confession is a testimony of the faithfulness of God and the promise He made at baptism. But until they can do this, they are safe in the covenant and promise of God. Not all children are.

    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    While I do believe in "age of accountability," all I can conclude from your post is that when a person who cannot yet believe (example, an infant), IS saved when a man baptizes them AND when a person CAN make a conscious choice to believe, IS NOT saved... until a man baptizes them in water.

    Do you believe this?
    I believe that covenant children are saved, not all children. I do not believe that baptism saves. So a child who were baptized must still confess their faith to be saved and this confession is a testimony of the faithfulness of God and the promise He made at baptism. But until they can do this, they are safe in the covenant and promise of God. Not all children are.

    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)

  5. #500
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)
    Because of not able to edit.

    Does by being baptized again you crucify Christ again for baptizing being died with Christ and resurrected with Him also?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)
    Because of not able to edit.

    Does by being baptized again you crucify Christ again for baptizing being died with Christ and resurrected with Him also?

  6. #501
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,917
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I believe that covenant children are saved, not all children. I do not believe that baptism saves. So a child who were baptized must still confess their faith to be saved and this confession is a testimony of the faithfulness of God and the promise He made at baptism. But until they can do this, they are safe in the covenant and promise of God. Not all children are.

    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)

    My question was that if a person was baptized under false pretenses, must he be baptized again if he came to faith? (this is for those who do not believe in covenant or infant baptism)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Because of not able to edit.

    Does by being baptized again you crucify Christ again for baptizing being died with Christ and resurrected with Him also?
    No one should be baptized until after Christ has redeemed (saved) the person. Meaning, until a person professes Christ (believed unto Him), they cannot be baptized. Philip is the perfect example of leadership when the eunuch wanted to be baptized. Philip held off with a question, the answer of professing Christ allowed Philip to know the man was redeemed (already saved) by Christ.

    I believe that covenant children are saved, not all children. I do not believe that baptism saves. So a child who were baptized must still confess their faith to be saved and this confession is a testimony of the faithfulness of God and the promise He made at baptism. But until they can do this, they are safe in the covenant and promise of God. Not all children are.
    This part makes no sense.

    Tell me, if a covenant child (as per your understanding) grows into adulthood and has no faith in God... what is the value of the covenant when they WERE an infant, are they redeemed since that infancy covenant?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  7. #502
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    No one should be baptized until after Christ has redeemed (saved) the person. Meaning, until a person professes Christ (believed unto Him), they cannot be baptized. Philip is the perfect example of leadership when the eunuch wanted to be baptized. Philip held off with a question, the answer of professing Christ allowed Philip to know the man was redeemed (already saved) by Christ.
    I believe I was saved at the cross, this by the grace of God which elected me before creation to be His. When I confessed my faith in Christ was the moment I realized who I was, a lost sinner who by grace was saved by Christ on the cross and now I can live in the knowing of being a child of God. Realizing that I am not under the dominion of sin anymore, I confessed my sins and turn away from it to live a life of gratitude, of being holy. I now have a new identity not because of me, but because of God. This was the promised God made at my baptism and which He fulfilled by His grace.

    This part makes no sense.

    Tell me, if a covenant child (as per your understanding) grows into adulthood and has no faith in God... what is the value of the covenant when they WERE an infant, are they redeemed since that infancy covenant?
    Great, for they were under God's grace and mercy. But by not coming to Christ it is also terrible for they would have no excuse in not knowing Him.

    Joh 15:6* If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.*

  8. #503
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    5,208

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    I believe I was saved at the cross, this by the grace of God which elected me before creation to be His. When I confessed my faith in Christ was the moment I realized who I was, a lost sinner who by grace was saved by Christ on the cross and now I can live in the knowing of being a child of God. Realizing that I am not under the dominion of sin anymore, I confessed my sins and turn away from it to live a life of gratitude, of being holy. I now have a new identity not because of me, but because of God. This was the promised God made at my baptism and which He fulfilled by His grace.



    Great, for they were under God's grace and mercy. But by not coming to Christ it is also terrible for they would have no excuse in not knowing Him.

    Joh 15:6* If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.*
    According to your doctrine, when were you under the dominion of sin ? How is that possible according to your doctrine ?

  9. #504
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,917
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    Great, for they were under God's grace and mercy. But by not coming to Christ it is also terrible for they would have no excuse in not knowing Him.

    Joh 15:6* If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.*
    I'll ID the problem then. You believe God's grace covers the child as an infant (which I agree with you so far due to my understanding of age of accountability), however, where your position fails is this:

    Grace according to your position is irrefutable/irresistible, anyone UNDER God's grace can never NOT be saved. So your own post, refutes your position.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  10. #505
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    According to your doctrine, when were you under the dominion of sin ? How is that possible according to your doctrine ?
    It was the same as all men until I have founded grace and mercy by Him. Because I was predestined to be His, He worked everything to bring that to effect. So because of His grace and mercy I was never predestined to die under the dominion of sin, but to be saved from it. I could not start living who I am in Christ until I came to realize it. Professing your faith is part of this. Now I know because of Christ I can overcome sin, I am free of it, I can ask Him to help me and trust Him in doing it, while previously I tried on my own and failed, because the flesh is weak.

    So was I ever in danger of dying under the dominion of sin? No. Did I live as under the dominion of sin? Yes.

  11. #506
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    5,208

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    It was the same as all men until I have founded grace and mercy by Him. Because I was predestined to be His, He worked everything to bring that to effect. So because of His grace and mercy I was never predestined to die under the dominion of sin, but to be saved from it. I could not start living who I am in Christ until I came to realize it. Professing your faith is part of this. Now I know because of Christ I can overcome sin, I am free of it, I can ask Him to help me and trust Him in doing it, while previously I tried on my own and failed, because the flesh is weak.

    So was I ever in danger of dying under the dominion of sin? No. Did I live as under the dominion of sin? Yes
    .
    So, from a scriptural standpoint how did you pass from death to life ?

  12. #507
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    I'll ID the problem then. You believe God's grace covers the child as an infant (which I agree with you so far due to my understanding of age of accountability), however, where your position fails is this:

    Grace according to your position is irrefutable/irresistible, anyone UNDER God's grace can never NOT be saved. So your own post, refutes your position.
    Not really. I think the confusion is for my lack of explaining adequately.

    Are all covenant children under God's grace [B]IF[B] they should die in infancy? Yes.

    Are all covenant children under God's grace IF they reach adulthood? No, for you must have faith by confessing your faith in Christ. So yes grace is irresistible for the elect.

  13. #508
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    So, from a scriptural standpoint how did you pass from death to life ?
    By God's mercy and grace through faith in Christ.

  14. #509
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    5,208

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari View Post
    By God's mercy and grace through faith in Christ.
    Let me rephrase the question. If you were never actually under condemnation due to your predestined election, how did you pass from death to life ? Were you at any time condemned ?

  15. #510
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kalahari
    Posts
    5,970

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    Let me rephrase the question. If you were never actually under condemnation due to your predestined election, how did you pass from death to life ? Were you at any time condemned ?
    Same answer. Was I condemned same as all in Adam? Yes. It was from this condemnation/death that I was saved by God's grace and mercy through faith in Christ. This predestined and elected by God before creation.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Need Advice: Help regarding Baptism???
    By wendy-p-marshall in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Dec 10th 2015, 07:24 PM
  2. Which is right in Baptism?
    By Sig Sauer in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: Dec 7th 2015, 07:32 PM
  3. Replies: 126
    Last Post: Jun 28th 2012, 02:42 PM
  4. Biblical Support for Infant Baptism/Adult Baptism?
    By TheAnswer99 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Mar 27th 2010, 04:11 AM
  5. Baptism
    By Soldier4Him in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 162
    Last Post: Jul 13th 2008, 07:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •