Page 43 of 43 FirstFirst ... 323334353637383940414243
Results 631 to 638 of 638

Thread: How necessary Baptism?

  1. #631
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,960
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Tradition--not Bible! Just find yourself anywhere that baptism is proposed for someone living in righteousness (aside from Jesus, of course).
    Jesus commanded us to remember Him through the breaking of bread and drinking of the fruit of the vine. Do you consider Communion a "Tradition" only and not Biblical? Jesus led by example, gave us the example of a Communion... is His example of a baptism any less an example that one of His examples can be written off as a "tradition." Or do you write off both these examples, BOTH of which are commanded to be accomplished as Jesus led the way in obedience?

    You know my position, either of these works of righteousness are NOT salvic, but BOTH are commanded.

    Do you also write off Communion as well?
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  2. #632
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    441

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    How does the context of this verse fit in with your boasting about how you weren't saved until another man submerged you in water? Also, how does the context of this verse allow you to determine another's salvation when they have not yet had another man submerge them in water?

    You are changing the message of the Gospel by saying that faith doesn't save

    Have you ever read the Parable of the Sower? Jesus spells it out, the devil doesn't have to prevent a baptism to prevent salvation, the devil has to prevent belief ONLY, to prevent a person from being saved. He does this by stealing the Gospel (blinding and deafening) the lost.

    Your teachings teach that Jesus doesn't save WHEN HE SAYS He does... go ahead, read the parable.
    Baptism is not a "WORK". Just as repentance, confession, and belief are not works. But they are all physical actions that must be taken to receive salvation. It is surrender to His will. Faith does save. Faith includes our action in response to our belief. You show me your faith without works (actions) (you can't, there is no such thing. It is dead.), and I will show you my faith by my works (actions), (James 2:18).

    I have changed nothing in the Gospel. The Parable of the Sower says nothing about when salvation occurs. I says, "But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit..." (Matt 13:23). It says nothing about belief or obedience. Are we to assume then that all we have to do is understand the Gospel, we don't have to believe it, or obey it, to be saved? No. Understanding alone is not enough.

  3. #633
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    The Bookshelf
    Posts
    6,813
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    But they are all physical actions that must be taken to receive salvation.
    Good grief!

    Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” ... For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” ... For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10)

  4. #634
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,516

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slug1 View Post
    Jesus commanded us to remember Him through the breaking of bread and drinking of the fruit of the vine. Do you consider Communion a "Tradition" only and not Biblical? Jesus led by example, gave us the example of a Communion... is His example of a baptism any less an example that one of His examples can be written off as a "tradition." Or do you write off both these examples, BOTH of which are commanded to be accomplished as Jesus led the way in obedience?

    You know my position, either of these works of righteousness are NOT salvic, but BOTH are commanded.

    Do you also write off Communion as well?
    No, I do not group Communion together with Baptism, though I consider them both legitimate *traditions.* There are good traditions and bad traditions. I don't consider either one a binding regulation, or legalistic command.

    Salvation is not based on these kinds of religious works. Rather, our Salvation is based on *Christ's works of redemption alone.* Our works consist of accepting what Christ did, and then following up on that acceptance. Baptism and Communion are sanctioned ways of following up on our acceptance of what Christ did. It provides us with a path forward, by way of tradition.

    So we are both agreed that neither Communion nor Baptism has a thing to do with our Salvation. On the other hand, I do believe they were recommended traditions, though there is a sense of a command to couple Water Baptism with the Gospel message in the initial preaching of the Gospel by the Apostles. There is nothing beyond this initial apostolic tradition that requires anything more than the kind of commitment that Water Baptism represented, symbolically.

    Jesus said, regarding Communion, "as often as you do this." In other words, it did not have to take place at all. But if it did, and it was indeed recommended, then it should be done in so and so particular way. In other words, it should be done with the utmost seriousness or gravity.

    I think we should recognize that in context, commands to perform these traditions were not requiring the traditions themselves, but more, the things they actually represented. Communion represents our participation in and our union with Christ, spiritually. This is the important thing--not the tradition.

    It's the same with Water Baptism. What Christ was making essential was not the external act of Water Baptism itself, but more, the things it represented. It represented living life to the full for Christ, and to die to one's Self. We have to completely commit to the spirituality of Christ, and die to our sinful flesh--to our autonomous way of living. The external tradition itself is not the thing Christ's command was truly focused on, in my consideration.

  5. #635
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,516

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    I would reiterate that Water Baptism and Communion are legitimate tools Christ gave us to accomplish the things they represent, a committed spiritual life. To throw out these traditions is to throw out the tools he gave us to help us with these things. They are not the things themselves, but tools to help us with them. They should be practiced when they are needed. They are not to be used as a form of legalistic bondage, however.

  6. #636
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,960
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    Baptism is not a "WORK". Just as repentance, confession, and belief are not works. But they are all physical actions that must be taken to receive salvation. It is surrender to His will. Faith does save. Faith includes our action in response to our belief. You show me your faith without works (actions) (you can't, there is no such thing. It is dead.), and I will show you my faith by my works (actions), (James 2:18).

    I have changed nothing in the Gospel. The Parable of the Sower says nothing about when salvation occurs. I says, "But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit..." (Matt 13:23). It says nothing about belief or obedience. Are we to assume then that all we have to do is understand the Gospel, we don't have to believe it, or obey it, to be saved? No. Understanding alone is not enough.
    If something is "done" to receive something, then a "work" is being done. However, what you fail to understand is the "work" that saves WAS COMPLETED in Christ though His Blood. By faith, all that one has to do, to REAP the work of His sacrifice (work of His Blood) is to only... BELIEVE.

    Anything we do as an action, is a work and NO work we do, NOT even the believing that we do, saves us... only HIM, in WHOM we believe, saves. Our believing in Him, ALLOWS Him to save us. The greatest imagery in the Bible of this truth is about opening of a door (believing) and inviting Jesus, IN. He then saves any who do this.

    A water baptism is a representation of His work... have you failed in doing the studying of the Greek words utilized and that have been illuminated too you, to study?

    Brother, a man can be walking through a desert, no water in sight and the moment they believe in Christ, He saves (redeems) them. Then in obedience, once water is available they can DO what should be the first good work of faith. This is why Philip would not "just" baptize the eunuch, the eunuch had to FIRST be redeemed by Christ.

    A water baptism is a work that is to show the world that Jesus has washed them clean of all unrighteousness and HAS saved them... the water baptism doesn't save.
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  7. #637
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    In a place of praying hard and trusting God while battling on my knees!
    Posts
    31,960
    Blog Entries
    95

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Good grief!

    Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. But the righteousness based on faith says, "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” ... For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” ... For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” (Romans 10)
    Hooah, repped ya!
    Slug1--out

    ~Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,~

    ~Honestly, the pain of persecution lets you KNOW you are still alive... IN Christ!~

    ~Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.~


    ~"In the turmoil of any chaos, all it takes is that whisper that is heard like thunder over all the noise and the chaos seems to go away, focus returns and we are comforted in knowing that God has listened to our cry for help."~


  8. #638
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    171

    Re: How necessary Baptism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brents View Post
    Anyone. No one is sealed without obedience, ie: water baptism.
    Excuse me but can you please tell me if Cornelius lost being sealed by the Holy Spirit at Acts 10:45? "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, (why?) because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also." Vs46, "For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then (which means afterwards) Peter answered, vs47, "Surely no one can refust the water for these to be baptised who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" The last sentence is a "rehtorical" question that requires no answer.

    So here is the facts, Corneilus received the gift of the Holy Spirit "BEFORE" he was water baptized. Now here's another question for you? Can you show from the text at what point did Cornelius repented? Look at vs44, "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message." So when did he repent and then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit? You see, the Scriptures do not contradict themselves. The problem most people have is not knowing how to "reconcile" verses that "SEEM OR APPEAR" to contradict themselves.

    IN GOD THE SON,
    maverick

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Need Advice: Help regarding Baptism???
    By wendy-p-marshall in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Dec 10th 2015, 07:24 PM
  2. Which is right in Baptism?
    By Sig Sauer in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: Dec 7th 2015, 07:32 PM
  3. Replies: 126
    Last Post: Jun 28th 2012, 02:42 PM
  4. Biblical Support for Infant Baptism/Adult Baptism?
    By TheAnswer99 in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Mar 27th 2010, 04:11 AM
  5. Baptism
    By Soldier4Him in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 162
    Last Post: Jul 13th 2008, 07:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •