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Thread: The Throne of God on Earth?

  1. #16
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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Originally Posted by 6paths
    When Jesus returns, do you believe as I do that the presence of God the Father will also be on earth in the way he came to Sinai?
    From what I gather in scripture so far, Jesus the Son of God comes twice more to the Earth after His ascension described in Acts 1:9-11, His second coming to gather what people(s) God has given to Him, both the dead believers who sleep and the remaining live believers who are still treading upon the Earth.

    Then again a third time three a 3 1/2 to 7 years later to defeat the enemies of God and permanently establish God's Kingdom on the Earth after God has placed all of fallen creation under the feet of Christ via God's Just Wrath is poured out upon the Earth.

    Meaning, I believe that God's presence will not dwell upon the Earth again until Christ's third return mentioned above, when all things in heaven and on the Earth are restored.

    But, yes, I believe that when God's presence does return to the Earth it will shine just as bright or probably brighter than His presence shined from Mt Sinai in the OT.

    I also believe that when His presence does finally return to dwell on the Earth again, that all of us creatures on Earth will obey, honor and kneel to him., for a season some us creatures will honor and obey Him anyway, 1,000 years.







    Originally Posted by 6paths
    In Rev 6:16, how do you account for the fact that everyone in the vicinity wants to "hide from the face of Him who sits on the throne?"
    In Rev ch 6 I interpret the folks who are hiding from God in caves and praying to God for their quick demise are doing so because of the Just Wrath of God that has suddenly come upon them and all of the Earth, which is also a form of God's Shining Glory in the sense of Justice, but it is not His physical presence, yet.
    Meaning, I interpret that portion of Rev ch 6 as bad folks hiding from God's symbolic Face; His Face of Justice and Wrath, and not His physical presence, yet.






    Originally Posted by 6paths
    In this reference, God the Father is in the hearts and minds of everyone, not just his children. How can this be?
    Well, this will be the more difficult one for me to articulate, it's deep and way over my head, so to speak.
    I believe God is already in the hearts and minds of every living/breathing soul on the Earth, and always has been since the creation of man, it's just that some souls honor and obey Him and some souls do not.

    Unbelievers have God in their hearts and minds but they do not honor Him.

    Sincere christians and messianic Jews have God in the hearts and minds, but they do honor Him.

    But, all of creation, even the planets and stars testify of it's Creator by it's own nature and existence, inanimate objects on the Earth also testify to the living breathing souls, testify to them of God's undeniable existence.

    What I mean is, the hearts and minds of creatures have the acknowledgement of God in their hearts and minds, but that does not mean those creatures worship, honor and obey that acknowledgement of God.
    Just as the demons and the devil himself acknowledge or have knowledge of God, but they do not honor Him nor practice obedience to Him.



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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    The question remains, is this a single event mentioned 4 times, or will the presence of the throne of God be felt at 4 different times?
    The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath, Joel 2:31 and over 100 other prophesies, all describe the same event; a one day worldwide devastation by a massive strike of a Coronal Mass Ejection, that will literally cause all the cosmic and earthly effects as prophesied.

    The Lord won't be seen on that Day, it is not His Return in glory, as yet. But He will help and protect those who call upon His Name; Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    [/COLOR]From what I gather in scripture so far, Jesus the Son of God comes twice more to the Earth after His ascension described in Acts 1:9-11, His second coming to gather what people(s) God has given to Him, both the dead believers who sleep and the remaining live believers who are still treading upon the Earth.

    Then again a third time three a 3 1/2 to 7 years later to defeat the enemies of God and permanently establish God's Kingdom on the Earth after God has placed all of fallen creation under the feet of Christ via God's Just Wrath is poured out upon the Earth.

    Meaning, I believe that God's presence will not dwell upon the Earth again until Christ's third return mentioned above, when all things in heaven and on the Earth are restored.

    But, yes, I believe that when God's presence does return to the Earth it will shine just as bright or probably brighter than His presence shined from Mt Sinai in the OT.

    I also believe that when His presence does finally return to dwell on the Earth again, that all of us creatures on Earth will obey, honor and kneel to him., for a season some us creatures will honor and obey Him anyway, 1,000 years.
    [/I][/FONT]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Many people believe the timing of events will happen as you have stated.
    For me, that timing breaks down when the same event (lightnings, and thunders, and voices, and an earthquake) is repeated throughout the Revelation.
    The presence of God the Father seems to be consistently overlooked.
    The multiple references of the return of Jesus also seem to be consistently overlooked. (Rev 6:16-17, 11:19, 14:14-16, 16:19,21, 19:11-21)

    From my perspective there will be a 7 year treaty.
    The last 3.5 years of the 7 will be the time of Great Tribulation.
    God does not come at the end of those 7 years.
    The period of God's wrath follows the period of Great Tribulation and lasts maybe 75 days. (To the end of the 1,335 days of Daniel) Wrath and Tribulation are separate, non-overlapping events!
    Both God the Father and God the Son come to earth at the end of the period of wrath as seen in the 7th vial.
    The resurrection of the dead occurs with the earthquake as a result of the presence of God the Father on earth.
    The raised dead and the living will be caught up in the clouds to be with Jesus as Jesus makes his way from heaven to earth following his father.
    Just as the earthquake is associated with the Father, hail (the winepress) is associated with the Son.

    Have you considered Dan 7:13
    "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him."
    Doesn't this verse show Jesus coming with the clouds of heaven to the earth where God the Father already is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post



    In Rev ch 6 I interpret the folks who are hiding from God in caves and praying to God for their quick demise are doing so because of the Just Wrath of God that has suddenly come upon them and all of the Earth, which is also a form of God's Shining Glory in the sense of Justice, but it is not His physical presence, yet.
    Meaning, I interpret that portion of Rev ch 6 as bad folks hiding from God's symbolic Face; His Face of Justice and Wrath, and not His physical presence, yet.


    Ez 20:33-36
    33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
    34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
    35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
    36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

    1 Cor 13:9-12
    "9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
    12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."

    To me, the Revelation references to the throne of God will be face to face in a God on Mt. Sinai with Moses type of event; this time on the Mount of Olives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    [/COLOR]Well, this will be the more difficult one for me to articulate, it's deep and way over my head, so to speak.
    I believe God is already in the hearts and minds of every living/breathing soul on the Earth, and always has been since the creation of man, it's just that some souls honor and obey Him and some souls do not.

    Unbelievers have God in their hearts and minds but they do not honor Him.

    Sincere christians and messianic Jews have God in the hearts and minds, but they do honor Him.

    But, all of creation, even the planets and stars testify of it's Creator by it's own nature and existence, inanimate objects on the Earth also testify to the living breathing souls, testify to them of God's undeniable existence.

    What I mean is, the hearts and minds of creatures have the acknowledgement of God in their hearts and minds, but that does not mean those creatures worship, honor and obey that acknowledgement of God.
    Just as the demons and the devil himself acknowledge or have knowledge of God, but they do not honor Him nor practice obedience to Him.
    [/FONT]

    [/I][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
    Many people use the name of God with empty swearing, but these people specifically name the one who sits on the throne and the Lamb.
    I have never heard anyone swear like this. Can you imagine any scenario other than the presence of both the Father and the Son that would make people use these words?

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    The great and terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath, Joel 2:31 and over 100 other prophesies, all describe the same event; a one day worldwide devastation by a massive strike of a Coronal Mass Ejection, that will literally cause all the cosmic and earthly effects as prophesied.

    The Lord won't be seen on that Day, it is not His Return in glory, as yet. But He will help and protect those who call upon His Name; Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21
    To clarify, do you believe that the 4 mentions of "the throne of God and an earthquake" in the Revelation are part of the 100 other prophesies describing the same event?

  5. #20

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Given the advancement of technology, I believe that there will be the ability to witness the Second Coming no matter where in the world a person is. Fascinating.

  6. #21
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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    To clarify, do you believe that the 4 mentions of "the throne of God and an earthquake" in the Revelation are part of the 100 other prophesies describing the same event?
    No.
    Revelation is a general sequence of events and there are other instances of this happening. It happened on Mt Sinai in the Exodus.
    The Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath is the Sixth Seal, it will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen until Jesus Returns.

    It is in the OT and verses like Luke 21:25-26, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7, that we see prophesies related to the Sixth Seal in the NT.

  7. #22
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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by dailyprayerwarrior View Post
    Given the advancement of technology, I believe that there will be the ability to witness the Second Coming no matter where in the world a person is. Fascinating.
    I believe this as well, unless satellites fall from the sky with the stars.

    When people refer to the Second Coming, Jesus is always the focus.
    However, the book of Revelation mentions directly or with symbols, the throne of God the Father, in 4 places. 3 use the symbols; lightnings, thunders, voices and an earthquake.
    I believe this will be 1 event that will be similar to what took place on Mt Sinai when Moses received the 10 commandments and as prophesied in Haggai 2:5-6.
    "5 According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not.
    6 For thus saith the Lord of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;"

    When this event is shown in the Revelation, the Millennial Kingdom has come,
    When interpreting the Revelation, events that do not describe the Second Coming with this event, begin a new series of events that will again lead to this point.
    Chapter 6 of Revelation represents 1 sequence of events that ends with the throne of God and the Second Coming.
    Rev 7:1-8:5 is a 2nd sequence of events that ends with the throne of God.
    Rev 8:6 - 11:19 is a 3rd sequence of events that ends with the throne of God and the Second Coming.
    Rev 12:7 - 14:20 is a 4th sequence of events that ends with the Second Coming.
    Rev 16 is a 5th sequence of events that ends with the throne of God and the Second Coming.
    Rev 18:1 - 19:21 is a 6th sequence of events that ends with the Second Coming.
    I believe that there are 6 separate sequences of events or "6 paths" to the Millennial Kingdom mentioned in the Revelation as opposed to 1.
    This is the only way I can reconcile these repetitions.

    Do you have an opinion on the many mentions of the throne of God and what that will look like?
    I consider it a Mt Sinai type of event, but I am alone in this conviction.

  8. #23
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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    No.
    Revelation is a general sequence of events and there are other instances of this happening. It happened on Mt Sinai in the Exodus.
    The Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath is the Sixth Seal, it will set the scene for all that is prophesied to happen until Jesus Returns.

    It is in the OT and verses like Luke 21:25-26, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7, that we see prophesies related to the Sixth Seal in the NT.
    I picture the Mt Sinai event in the 6th seal. I also believe this is the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath.

    Luke 21:25-27
    "25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

    In Luke, I picture the Sinai like event followed by the Second Coming.

    Romans 1:18-20
    "18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

    To me, this is different than a Sinai type of event.
    This says that God punishes sin on a regular basis and that the sinner is without excuse because he knows that the world has been created or designed by God, whether or not he admits to that fact.

    2 Peter 3:7-10
    "7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

    I think this refers to Rev 20:9-15, after the MK.
    "9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

    After this creation is burned up, a new Genesis will occur with a new heaven and a new earth.

    To summarize:
    Luke has a Sinai type of event that is followed by the Second Coming. (This is what I see in 4 places in the Revelation.)
    Romans shows sinners receive their just reward for sin without reference to a Sinai type of event or a Second Coming.
    2 Peter shows the end of the MK and the end of the present heaven and earth, with an event that is much more massive than what was seen at Sinai.

    It's interesting that where I see separate events, you see the same event.
    Where I see one repeated event, you see separate ones.

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    I see 2 Peter 3:7 and 10 as both describing the Sixth Seal event.
    In 2 Peter 3:11-14, Peter goes on the say how eventually the whole universe too, will be remade in that way and exhorts us to lead devout and dedicated lives because of all the Lord will do.
    He says we should pray to hasten on the commencement of the Day of the Lord, that will burn up mens works. The 'elements', meaning constructed things; not the basic atomic structures of all matter.

    The Day Jesus Returns and the Day of the New Heavens and earth will be neither unexpected or a surprise. It is only the forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, that will come suddenly; taking the world by surprise.
    We Christians should not be unaware or in the dark about it.

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    I see 2 Peter 3:7 and 10 as both describing the Sixth Seal event.
    In 2 Peter 3:11-14, Peter goes on the say how eventually the whole universe too, will be remade in that way and exhorts us to lead devout and dedicated lives because of all the Lord will do.
    He says we should pray to hasten on the commencement of the Day of the Lord, that will burn up mens works. The 'elements', meaning constructed things; not the basic atomic structures of all matter.

    The Day Jesus Returns and the Day of the New Heavens and earth will be neither unexpected or a surprise. It is only the forthcoming great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, that will come suddenly; taking the world by surprise.
    We Christians should not be unaware or in the dark about it.
    It's interesting that your definition of The Day of the Lord does not include The Day the Lord is revealed to earth from heaven.
    Why does Jesus say he is coming as a thief in Rev 16:15?

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    God does not need to 'come to' anywhere. He is omnipresent.
    And Jesus is with us always, spiritually. Matthew 28:20 But He will physically and visible to everyone; Return in His Glory and reign on earth for 1000 years.
    Also after the Millennium, God the Father will be visibly present on earth. Revelation 21:2

    Lightning is generally associated with the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11, Psalms 11:4-6
    It's always difficult, when we're dealing with the Trinity, to describe each Person properly. When we say the whole world will see Jesus at his Coming, we may either be talking about seeing him on satellite TV or witness him via the changes that will take place on the earth politically.

    If we talk about God the Father being "seen" on earth, it would have to be a form of seeing Him through the agents of His finite revelation, which are the various forms His word takes to represent Him, whether through the revelation of His Son or through the revelation of His Spirit or any other symbol constructed by His Word to present His Person.

    The Father Himself, without these various agencies that communicate in finite forms, can never appear to finite man. As finite beings we are incapable of seeing anything so great as the Father in His complete majesty. We can only see symbolic representations of Him, or representations of Him on a smaller scale, than He is in His infinite Being.

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    It's always difficult, when we're dealing with the Trinity, to describe each Person properly. When we say the whole world will see Jesus at his Coming, we may either be talking about seeing him on satellite TV or witness him via the changes that will take place on the earth politically.

    If we talk about God the Father being "seen" on earth, it would have to be a form of seeing Him through the agents of His finite revelation, which are the various forms His word takes to represent Him, whether through the revelation of His Son or through the revelation of His Spirit or any other symbol constructed by His Word to present His Person.

    The Father Himself, without these various agencies that communicate in finite forms, can never appear to finite man. As finite beings we are incapable of seeing anything so great as the Father in His complete majesty. We can only see symbolic representations of Him, or representations of Him on a smaller scale, than He is in His infinite Being.
    Do you reject the symbolized construct that the throne of God the Father is shown with lightnings, and thunders, and voices?
    Do you reject the symbolized construct that the throne of God the Father causes an earthquake at a place where there are also lightnings, and thunders, and voices?
    Do you reject that the lightnings, and thunders, voices, and an earthquake; picture a Mt Sinai type of event?
    Do you have an opinion on these symbols and their multiple uses?

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    Do you reject the symbolized construct that the throne of God the Father is shown with lightnings, and thunders, and voices?
    Do you reject the symbolized construct that the throne of God the Father causes an earthquake at a place where there are also lightnings, and thunders, and voices?
    Do you reject that the lightnings, and thunders, voices, and an earthquake; picture a Mt Sinai type of event?
    Do you have an opinion on these symbols and their multiple uses?
    Yes, as I indicated earlier in your thread, these symbols are symbols of divine judgment, and are clearly evident in the eschaton--in the final judgments of God in this age. And yes, they do represent God the Father, and the Throne of God, as symbols of the same. My only point was that the Father Himself cannot be seen, but only through symbols of who He is or of His reign.

    Electrical charges causing lightning are anomalies, in a sense, and indicate a diversification in the clouds and on the ground. This represents a growing diversification between a holy God and Mankind. That's what universal judgment is--a major change in how God has been doing business, in turning from His regular display of Grace to an attitude of Judgment towards mankind.

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    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    It's interesting that your definition of The Day of the Lord does not include The Day the Lord is revealed to earth from heaven.
    Why does Jesus say he is coming as a thief in Rev 16:15?
    The Day that Jesus Returns, is referred to as the Great Day of Almighty God. Revelation 16:14b
    The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, is the Sixth Seal - at least 10-12 years before the Return.
    He is revealed, but only to His faithful people, soon after the Sixth Seal event. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10, Revelation 14:1

    Revelation 16:15 is brackets, a parenthesis in my REBible.
    It is an admonition to us to be ready physically and spiritually for all that must happen before He Returns.
    Neither the glorious Return or the GWT Judgment, will come unexpectedly. Only the Day of the Lords fiery wrath; Isaiah 10:17-19, Isaiah 29:5-6

  15. #30

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Lightning, thundering, voices and earthquake coming out the throne of God are the words of the Father, Son, Lord and Faithful respectively.

    They don't constitute the throne, but are just God's words according to His four offices. There are occasions that God speaks as the Father and His word is heard, seen, understood and experienced as lightening (the glory of life manifests as light).

    Great hail is God's word encapsulating the lightening, thundering, voices and earthquake.
    Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ!

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