Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: The Throne of God on Earth?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    The Throne of God on Earth?

    Rev 4:5 "
    And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:..."

    Rev 8:5 "
    And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."
    Rev 11:19 "
    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
    Rev 16:18 "
    And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

    Also, in Rev 6:14-16 the results of an earthquake is described in connection with the throne of God.


    "14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"


    I believe that the throne of God is symbolized by lightnings and thunderings and voices because of Rev 4:5.

    To me, the repetition of the throne of God together with an earthquake provides the greatest clue as to the timing of events in the Revelation.
    I believe this is 1 event that is mentioned 4 times. I am interested in what others think about this being the throne of God, whether it is 1 event or 4, whether you believe God the Father will cause the earthquake, and whether you believe God the Father will come to earth with Jesus.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Sorry about the font size, I don't know what happened.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,309
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Do you have a point to make?

    We know that God is omnipresent, therefore His Throne can be seen by anyone at any time, that He wills it. Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen, Acts 7:56 saw it while they were on the earth.

  4. #4

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    I believe that the throne of God is symbolized by lightnings and thunderings and voices because of Rev 4:5.
    I believe they're symbols of the word of God,

    The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. 2Sam.22:14

    The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
    Jn.12:29

    Light flashes and the earth moving are things caused by the word of God on earth, the voices of the prophets pointing to Jesus.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    Sorry about the font size, I don't know what happened.
    That sometimes happens to me when I open a new thread. I just have to be careful when I insert a quote from somewhere else.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    Rev 4:5 "
    And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices:..."

    Rev 8:5 "
    And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."
    Rev 11:19 "
    And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
    Rev 16:18 "
    And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

    Also, in Rev 6:14-16 the results of an earthquake is described in connection with the throne of God.


    "14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"


    I believe that the throne of God is symbolized by lightnings and thunderings and voices because of Rev 4:5.

    To me, the repetition of the throne of God together with an earthquake provides the greatest clue as to the timing of events in the Revelation.
    I believe this is 1 event that is mentioned 4 times. I am interested in what others think about this being the throne of God, whether it is 1 event or 4, whether you believe God the Father will cause the earthquake, and whether you believe God the Father will come to earth with Jesus.
    No, God the Father will not come to earth because by definition He is not associated with other various revelations of His Being. That is, the only revelation we are given of Him are as He is as Father and impassible Deity. Other revelations of His Being are of Him as Christ, His human representation, and the Spirit, the revelation of His presence in various locations throughout the universe.

    The reason lightnings and thunders are associated with God's throne is to suggest that He is prepared to bring judgment upon the earth. When we see a storm on earth, we know that trouble is brewing. The source of that "trouble" will be God's throne when the time comes.

    The Egyptian Plagues, Sinai, God's deliverance of David, defeating enemies, the cherubim, the return of Christ, and Armageddon are some of the places where we see "lightning" in Scriptures.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,309
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No, God the Father will not come to earth because by definition He is not associated with other various revelations of His Being. That is, the only revelation we are given of Him are as He is as Father and impassible Deity. Other revelations of His Being are of Him as Christ, His human representation, and the Spirit, the revelation of His presence in various locations throughout the universe.

    The reason lightnings and thunders are associated with God's throne is to suggest that He is prepared to bring judgment upon the earth. When we see a storm on earth, we know that trouble is brewing. The source of that "trouble" will be God's throne when the time comes.

    The Egyptian Plagues, Sinai, God's deliverance of David, defeating enemies, the cherubim, the return of Christ, and Armageddon are some of the places where we see "lightning" in Scriptures.
    God does not need to 'come to' anywhere. He is omnipresent.
    And Jesus is with us always, spiritually. Matthew 28:20 But He will physically and visible to everyone; Return in His Glory and reign on earth for 1000 years.
    Also after the Millennium, God the Father will be visibly present on earth. Revelation 21:2

    Lightning is generally associated with the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11, Psalms 11:4-6

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Do you have a point to make?

    We know that God is omnipresent, therefore His Throne can be seen by anyone at any time, that He wills it. Ezekiel 1:1 and Stephen, Acts 7:56 saw it while they were on the earth.
    Exodus 19:11 "And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai."

    Exodus 19:16-18
    "16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
    17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
    18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

    Your Ezekiel 1:1 and Act 7:56 examples are more like Revelation 4:5, where only 1 person was able to see into heaven from earth.

    It is my opinion that the other Revelation examples are more like that of the Exodus, where God the Father revealed himself to many people at once from an earthly location and not in a vision.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Earth, still.
    Posts
    135

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe they're symbols of the word of God,

    The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. 2Sam.22:14

    The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
    Jn.12:29

    Light flashes and the earth moving are things caused by the word of God on earth, the voices of the prophets pointing to Jesus.
    My first thoughts were on this same track, and reinforced by my belief that God's throne is currently in the hearts and minds of His obedient children, until Jesus returns to fully claim and inhabit what He purchased.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Thames, New Zealand
    Posts
    2,309
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6paths View Post
    Exodus 19:11 "And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai."

    Exodus 19:16-18
    "16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
    17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
    18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

    Your Ezekiel 1:1 and Act 7:56 examples are more like Revelation 4:5, where only 1 person was able to see into heaven from earth.

    It is my opinion that the other Revelation examples are more like that of the Exodus, where God the Father revealed himself to many people at once from an earthly location and not in a vision.
    Soon to happen; the great Second Exodus of God's faithful Christian people, who comprise mainly of the descendants of the 10 Northern tribes of Israel. Isaiah 11:11-12, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:1-16

    Ezekiel 22:15-16 I will disperse you Israelites among the nations, scattered over all the earth. I shall sift you to get rid of your defilement. Deut. 29:28, Amos 9:9-10
    The exile of Israel and Judah from the Holy Land was done in ancient times. Throughout the ages, righteous people have kept the faith and shone the light of the Gospel around the world and now every believer looks expectantly for the fulfilment of the wonderful promises to all those who love the Lord and keep His commandments.

    Ezekiel 22:17-22 To the Lord, all of the House of Israel are but a debased alloy. So I shall gather you all into the Holy Land, as metal is refined in a crucible. I will fan the fire of My anger and wrath until you are melted. You will know that I the Lord, have poured out My anger upon you. Isaiah 41:1-10
    This forthcoming fire judgement will affect the whole world, then as:
    Ezekiel 20:34-38...I shall take you Israelites out of the nations.....gather you and judge you....those who rebel against Me will not enter the Land. Deuteronomy 30:1-10

    Ezekiel 22:24 The Lord says to the land of Israel: You have become like a land on which no rain has fallen, on the Day of My wrath. Zephaniah 1:18, Ezekiel 20:47-48
    The Holy Land becomes ‘scorched and untrodden’ - Jeremiah 9:10-11, Hosea 4:3
    Joel 1:15-20…dry and ruined, for fire has burned the trees and pastures’.

    Ezekiel 22:25-29 The leaders in the land are like lions that take what they want and the priests give rulings that violate My Laws, they profane what is sacred. The people do not keep My Sabbaths in truth and God is dishonored among them. Their prophets and seers speak lies and the common people use extortion and commit robbery, oppressing the poor and the alien, denying them justice.
    This is the situation worldwide, but particularly in all the area of the Holy Land. Jeremiah 25:29-30, Isaiah 22:12-14, Ezekiel 7:2-4]

    Ezekiel 22:30-31 The Lord searches for anyone righteous who could stand before Him and plead for the people, to avert the destruction of the Land, but no such person can be found. Ezekiel 6:11-12
    So the Lord will pour out His wrath upon them and utterly consume them in His blazing anger, thus bringing down upon them the punishment they deserve. Jeremiah 12:14
    Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

    The terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, in His blazing anger:
    This Day is described over 100 times in the Bible and is clearly prophesied to be a Coronal Mass Ejection; an explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26....the sun will shine seven times stronger….. Psalms 50:1-6, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7
    All that area of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and after that many prophecies say how the Land will be quickly regenerated, then how all the Lord’s faithful Christian people will gather and settle there. Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
    Great will be the Day!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I believe they're symbols of the word of God,

    The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. 2Sam.22:14

    The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
    Jn.12:29

    Light flashes and the earth moving are things caused by the word of God on earth, the voices of the prophets pointing to Jesus.
    2 Sam 22:8-16
    "8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
    9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
    10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
    11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
    12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.
    13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.
    14 The Lord thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
    15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
    16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the Lord, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils."

    The 2 Samuel passage seems like a Sinai event which I believe will be like the event described in 4 places in the Revelation. The voices, thunders, lightning, and an earthquake are all mentioned.

    The John passage mentions voices and thunder, but no earthquake. I believe this is more like Rev 4:5, where God remains in heaven, not causing an earthquake with his presence.

    How many times do you believe the earth will know the presence of God? Will God make his presence felt 4 times, or is this 1 event mentioned 4 times. I believe it is the latter.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    No, God the Father will not come to earth because by definition He is not associated with other various revelations of His Being. That is, the only revelation we are given of Him are as He is as Father and impassible Deity. Other revelations of His Being are of Him as Christ, His human representation, and the Spirit, the revelation of His presence in various locations throughout the universe.

    The reason lightnings and thunders are associated with God's throne is to suggest that He is prepared to bring judgment upon the earth. When we see a storm on earth, we know that trouble is brewing. The source of that "trouble" will be God's throne when the time comes.

    The Egyptian Plagues, Sinai, God's deliverance of David, defeating enemies, the cherubim, the return of Christ, and Armageddon are some of the places where we see "lightning" in Scriptures.
    For Sinai and for God's deliverance of David as seen in 2 Sam, there is no doubt by anyone that God came down from heaven and took action.
    To me, this is far different than attributing something as an act of God. This is true even during the Egyptian Plagues which we are told were acts of God.
    The presence of God on earth seems to be unmistakable! How many times will this unmistakable presence be felt during the time of Revelation's fulfillment because it is mentioned 4 times?
    Since I believe God's unmistakable presence will only come 1 time in the future before the MK, His presence will come just after the armies have gathered at Armageddon, and just before the return of Christ.

    I say this because the return of Christ is associated with hail, and hail follows the thunders, and lightnings, and voices.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    God does not need to 'come to' anywhere. He is omnipresent.
    And Jesus is with us always, spiritually. Matthew 28:20 But He will physically and visible to everyone; Return in His Glory and reign on earth for 1000 years.
    Also after the Millennium, God the Father will be visibly present on earth. Revelation 21:2

    Lightning is generally associated with the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, when He won't be seen. Habakkuk 3:4, Psalms 18:11, Psalms 11:4-6
    Do you agree that both God the Father and God the Son will both visibly come to earth?

    I agree with your last statement, but I add thunders, voices, and especially an earthquake to the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath.
    Since Psalm 11:4-6 does not include these other things, it is not a description of that Day.
    Psalm 18 describes something that actually happened during David's life as found in 2 Sam 22 quoted earlier. The unmistakable presence of God that David experienced is what is described in the Revelation. However, Psalm 18 is history and the coming presence is future.

    Habakkuk does seem to describe the throne of God coming to earth in the future, but there is no mention of people other than Habakkuk himself who did recognize God and his work.
    Why do you believe he will not be seen even as he was "seen" on Sinai?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    My first thoughts were on this same track, and reinforced by my belief that God's throne is currently in the hearts and minds of His obedient children, until Jesus returns to fully claim and inhabit what He purchased.
    When Jesus returns, do you believe as I do that the presence of God the Father will also be on earth in the way he came to Sinai?

    In Rev 6:16, how do you account for the fact that everyone in the vicinity wants to "hide from the face of Him who sits on the throne?"
    In this reference, God the Father is in the hearts and minds of everyone, not just his children. How can this be?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Posts
    218

    Re: The Throne of God on Earth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Soon to happen; the great Second Exodus of God's faithful Christian people, who comprise mainly of the descendants of the 10 Northern tribes of Israel. Isaiah 11:11-12, Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:1-16

    Ezekiel 22:15-16 I will disperse you Israelites among the nations, scattered over all the earth. I shall sift you to get rid of your defilement. Deut. 29:28, Amos 9:9-10
    The exile of Israel and Judah from the Holy Land was done in ancient times. Throughout the ages, righteous people have kept the faith and shone the light of the Gospel around the world and now every believer looks expectantly for the fulfilment of the wonderful promises to all those who love the Lord and keep His commandments.

    Ezekiel 22:17-22 To the Lord, all of the House of Israel are but a debased alloy. So I shall gather you all into the Holy Land, as metal is refined in a crucible. I will fan the fire of My anger and wrath until you are melted. You will know that I the Lord, have poured out My anger upon you. Isaiah 41:1-10
    This forthcoming fire judgement will affect the whole world, then as:
    Ezekiel 20:34-38...I shall take you Israelites out of the nations.....gather you and judge you....those who rebel against Me will not enter the Land. Deuteronomy 30:1-10

    Ezekiel 22:24 The Lord says to the land of Israel: You have become like a land on which no rain has fallen, on the Day of My wrath. Zephaniah 1:18, Ezekiel 20:47-48
    The Holy Land becomes ‘scorched and untrodden’ - Jeremiah 9:10-11, Hosea 4:3
    Joel 1:15-20…dry and ruined, for fire has burned the trees and pastures’.

    Ezekiel 22:25-29 The leaders in the land are like lions that take what they want and the priests give rulings that violate My Laws, they profane what is sacred. The people do not keep My Sabbaths in truth and God is dishonored among them. Their prophets and seers speak lies and the common people use extortion and commit robbery, oppressing the poor and the alien, denying them justice.
    This is the situation worldwide, but particularly in all the area of the Holy Land. Jeremiah 25:29-30, Isaiah 22:12-14, Ezekiel 7:2-4]

    Ezekiel 22:30-31 The Lord searches for anyone righteous who could stand before Him and plead for the people, to avert the destruction of the Land, but no such person can be found. Ezekiel 6:11-12
    So the Lord will pour out His wrath upon them and utterly consume them in His blazing anger, thus bringing down upon them the punishment they deserve. Jeremiah 12:14
    Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

    The terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, in His blazing anger:
    This Day is described over 100 times in the Bible and is clearly prophesied to be a Coronal Mass Ejection; an explosion on the suns surface. Isaiah 30:26....the sun will shine seven times stronger….. Psalms 50:1-6, Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7
    All that area of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed, Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and after that many prophecies say how the Land will be quickly regenerated, then how all the Lord’s faithful Christian people will gather and settle there. Romans 9:24-26, Revelation 7:9
    Great will be the Day!
    The question remains, is this a single event mentioned 4 times, or will the presence of the throne of God be felt at 4 different times?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 47
    Last Post: Aug 5th 2017, 12:55 AM
  2. Throne visions
    By jeffweeder in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Nov 9th 2009, 05:32 PM
  3. The Throne of God
    By The Pilgrim in forum Christians Answer
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: Jun 15th 2009, 01:48 PM
  4. Approaching The Throne
    By undertheblood in forum Christian Fellowship
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Jun 5th 2009, 10:04 AM
  5. Young Earth/Old Earth - Geocentric/Heliocentric
    By fishbowlsoul in forum Apologetics and Evangelism
    Replies: 192
    Last Post: Mar 7th 2009, 03:41 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •