Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32

Thread: Was Paul a false prophet?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Was Paul a false prophet?

    I feel that this post needs to be posted again as I am debating on another site with people claiming that Paul was a false prophet.

    To me this is a sign of the ends times as many are leaving the true faith to support such a claim and we need to be equipped to defend and protect the true gospel



    Synopsis

    There is a belief spreading mostly within the Hebrew roots movement that Paul was a false prophet. The motivating force behind this claim is they believe Christians should submit to the letter of the Old Testament Law, but the stumbling block to overcome is the fact Paul clearly disagrees with them. Therefore, instead of following truth wherever it may lead, they are led to claim the vision Paul saw on the road to Damascus was actually Satanic in origin, instead of being the light of Jesus. However, could Christianity stand if Paul was an instrument of Satan? Could the bible survive the blow of Paul being a false prophet? I will examine these issues by proposing the full impact and disregard this self serving theology imposes on scripture.

    The first issue would lead to the credibility of Luke. Doctor Luke wrote the Book of Acts, however, if Paul’s road to Damascus experience was Satanic, the book of Luke would fall apart. If Luke’s creditably is lost then we would have to call into question the whole Gospel of Luke?

    Luke’s gospel has many events not found in any of the other biblical gospels; including the most detailed events which surround Jesus’ birth. Below are a couple of important events that we would have to call into question:

    1. Jesus’ genealogy starting all the way back to Adam

    2. The miraculous of the birth of John the Baptist

    John’s birth was the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy which if it didn’t happen, this would call into question the unity of scripture:

    Matthew 3:3

    3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah:

    “A voice of one calling in the wilderness,
    ‘Prepare the way for the Lord,
    make straight paths for him.’”[]

    Luke 1:11-15

    11 Then an angel of the appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

    The angel Gabriel appearing to Zechariah, John’s father, as the angel struck him mute until he named his son John.

    The visit of the angel Gabriel to Mary

    What about Mary’s credibility as she gave her Testimony to Luke of what she was told from the Angel Gabriel?

    Luke 1:26-33

    26 In the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28 The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.”

    29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

    When Mary visited her cousin Elizabeth and her unborn child

    John the Baptist was filled with the spirit of the Lord before he was born. Should we then question Elizabeth’s testimony as she was filled with the Holy Spirit when John leaped in her womb?

    Luke 1:39-44

    39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43 But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. 45 Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!”

    The Angel’s appearing to the Shepherds

    This is the only gospel that tells us that there was no room for Mary and Joseph at the inn. Would there ever be truth in setting up our manager scenes again at Christmas time?

    Could there ever be truth in singing Christmas songs like;

    While shepherds watch their flocks by night

    Oh Holy Night

    Hark the herald angels sing

    The first Noel

    Or even silent night?

    Luke 2:8-14

    8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

    13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

    14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
    and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

    The prophecies of Simeon and Anna when Mary and Joseph brought Jesus to the temple as an infant

    Was Simeon really told by the Holy Spirit that he would not die until he saw the Messiah? Was he really foretelling what would be in Jesus’ future, including that a sword will pierce Mary’s heart with grief? These are some of the questions we would have to ask about Luke’s gospel.

    Luke 2:25-38

    25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was on him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 Moved by the Spirit, he went into the temple courts. When the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the custom of the Law required, 28 Simeon took him in his arms and praised God, saying:

    29 “Sovereign Lord, as you have promised,
    you may now dismiss[d] your servant in peace.
    30 For my eyes have seen your salvation,
    31 which you have prepared in the sight of all nations:
    32 a light for revelation to the Gentiles,
    and the glory of your people Israel.”

    33 The child’s father and mother marveled at what was said about him. 34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”

    36 There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, 37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.[e] She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. 38 Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

    Jesus being lost when He was brought to Jerusalem, when He was twelve years old and was found teaching the religious teachers in the temple

    Was Jesus really lost and then found teaching and amazing the teachers in the temple? Did His amazing knowledge help prove that He was God as He wasn’t taught by the Jewish religious teachers?

    Luke 2:41-49

    41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

    49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”.

    There are also 11 parables of Jesus which are NOT in any of the other gospels here is a list below.

    ∙ Two Debtors (Luke 7:41-43)

    ∙ Good Samaritan (Luke 10:30-37)

    ∙ Importunate Friend (Luke 11:5-8)

    ∙ Rich Fool (Luke 12:16-21)

    ∙ Barren Fig-tree (Luke 13:6-9)

    ∙ Lost Piece of Silver (Luke 15:8-10)

    ∙ Τhe prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

    ∙ Unrighteous Manager (Luke 16:1-9)

    ∙ Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31)

    ∙ Unjust Judge (Luke 18:1-8)

    ∙ Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14)

    Is it possible that Jesus did not teach these parables? Such well-known ones, like the Good Samaritan, the prodigal son and the rich man and Lazarus?

    All of these events are only recorded in the book of Luke, however The Bible tells us that every word is inspired by God and all books of the bible are a unity containing the full message of God.

    2 Timothy 3:16

    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

    There is important events in the Book of Acts that would also have to call into question under the Jewish roots and other similar Pauline heresies.

    Did the Holy Spirit really come on the day of Pentecost? This led to Peter’s first sermon, when over three thousand Jews were converted on that same day.

    Did a great persecution start on the day of Stephen’s death as recorded in Acts Chapter 8?

    We would also have to call into question Ananias’s credibility who said he was sent to Paul by Jesus through a vision. Would we now have to consider that this vision too was of Satan?

    There are many more events in the book of Acts which we couldn’t verify if Paul was a false prophet and Luke was mistaken.

    People who claim the vision Paul saw was Satanic, also claim that Paul contradicted himself in addition to some of the apostles teachings, These people are using the Book of Acts to discredit Paul but the book of Acts actually supports Paul. Doctor Luke stated that it was Jesus in the vision and that Paul was God’s chosen Apostle to spread the gospel to the gentiles.

    Acts 9:3-6

    3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

    5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

    “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

    Acts 9:15

    15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel.

    The books of Acts is very same source they use to discredit Paul, however, it is the very same source which supports Paul. Therefore, there argument is confused and divided?

    When Jesus cast out a demon, He stated that a kingdom divided against its self cannot stand.

    Matthew 12:24-26

    24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons that this fellow drives out demons.”

    25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?

    Paul also cast out a demon.

    Acts 16:18

    18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.

    This confirms that the power came from God not Satan. Paul always glorified God through his works and if Satan did deceive Paul then Satan would be divided against himself. The fruits of Paul’s ministry reveal the truth, that it was Jesus in Paul’s vision and not Satan.

    Paul had the support of the apostles as they dwelt together and started different churches with the same teachings and message. If the churches Paul started had the same teachings as the other churches, started by the apostle, then how did Satan deceive Paul? If it was Satan in Paul’s vision, then Satan’s deception failed as the message Paul received actually strengthened the church and helped the church grow. Christian lives were also saved when Paul received his vision on the way to Damascus, as he was going there to arrest Christians.

    2 Peter 3:15

    15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

    Peter calls Paul his brother and not one of the apostles ever rebuked Paul’s for his teachings.

    Jesus also commanded the church to take the gospel to the whole world

    Matthew 28:18-20

    18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    Paul’s stated many times that the gospel had reached the whole known world during his life time showing that the fruits of his ministry revealed the truth of who Paul was.

    The truth of who was in Paul’s vision is revealed within these verses below, when Peter and some of the apostles were arrested and brought before the Sanhedrin.

    Acts 5:34-39

    34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. 35 Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. 36 Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”

    Paul’s teachings are still being taught in the church today almost two thousand years later, Paul gave God all of the glory thus proving that this vision was from God, not Satan.

    Some arguments against Paul are that he contradicts what Jesus said in some of His teachings. Paul was at times misunderstood and was taken out of context. One argument is that the angles said in the book of Acts that Jesus would come back the same way He left, physically up to the clouds. Jesus will come back the same way He left but that doesn’t rule out Jesus appearing in visions like He did to Ananias or to John in the book of Revelation.

    In Acts 9:7 Luke repeats the accounts of Paul’s testimony.

    7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone.

    In Acts 22:9 Paul says that his companions saw the light

    9 My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me.

    This is not a contradiction but just different accounts of what his companions saw, they did see the light but they didn’t actually see Jesus.

    Paul talks to different audiences, at different times, this is not a contraction or against what the apostles taught, it is just a partial account. Just like after the meeting of the Jewish council when the council wrote a letter to Gentile Believers recorded in acts 15:24-29.

    Acts 15:29

    29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

    Galatians 2:10

    10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I had been eager to do all along.

    In Acts 15 the letter was given to the believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia but in Galatians Paul is talking to the believers in Galatia. Paul is talking to two different audiences; one is a quote from the letter, the other is a message that came from the meeting. Both are meant to encourage them in their walk of faith.

    Some believe that Paul stated that the law wasn’t important or should be abolished and that Paul introduced his own law. This is not true. When the Jewish Leaders brought Paul up before Felix, Festus and King Agrippa, no one could prove that Paul did anything wrong regarding the law.

    Acts 24:14

    14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets.

    Paul believed in everything in accordance with the law. Paul knew that Jesus didn’t abolish the law but that Jesus fulfilled the law. Paul understood that the Jews before the cross were saved by grace through faith in a future Messiah and that the law never saved anyone as they were not saved by works but by grace through faith. Paul also understood that the law was bondage to the unbelieving Jews. This is why all Israel can’t be saved, only true Israel, the church, can all be saved.

    Some heretics claim Paul is admitted to being a liar.

    Romans 3:7

    7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

    Paul is not admitting that he is a liar he is paraphrasing what people were saying about him. Let’s also read the verses before and after this verse.

    Romans 3:5-8

    5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

    7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.

    Paul states in verse 7 that he was speaking as a man, not as a teacher of God’s word to prove a point that lying is wrong. Paul also states that people who lie bring condemnation upon themselves, he wasn’t justifying lying to glorify God even more. As for Paul admitting he was a liar, he was simply paraphrasing what was being misunderstood regarding these verses.
    Summary

    Jesus stated that the gates of hell would not prevail over the church, obviously, under the Jewish roots paradigm the gates of hell did prevail over the church for over 1900 years. This would make Jesus out to be a false prophet…

    Matthew 16:18

    18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Jesus and the apostles laid the foundations of the Church before the Bible was written, collected or canonized. Therefore, the church was not founded out of the New Testament cannon, rather, the New Testament was founded in the life of the church. To claim the church was deceived for 2000 years is to question the ability of the Apostles to pass down information to the church and also questions the guidance of the Holt Spirit. Even a person with the most basic understanding, or no understanding for that matter can confidently rebuke this false teaching because it was never taught by the historic church

    I hope that this write-up helps anyone struggling with modern heretical movements tainting the internet with such fallacies. Paul was the chosen messenger of God who helped spread the gospel to the gentiles. Paul’s actions and teachings are unified with the rest of the bibles teachings and that the fruits of Paul’s ministry have helped the church grow and are still being taught 2000 years later.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Northeast Alabama
    Posts
    5,264

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    If Paul was a false apostle Peter was as well as he defended Paul's ministry.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pbminimum View Post
    If Paul was a false apostle Peter was as well as he defended Paul's ministry.
    Yes I referred to peter defending Paul in this study

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,333
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    This will cover most of the things found in the OP but this is something I wrote on the same subject:

    What does the word disciple mean?


    Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.


    3101

    3101 mathetes {math-ay-tes'}

    from 3129; TDNT - 4:415,552; n m

    AV - disciple 268, vr disciple 1; 269

    1) a learner, pupil, disciple



    Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
    27 But Barnabas took him, and brought [him] to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus




    Any Christian is already a disciple of Christ. Paul WAS/IS a disciple. Sure, he tried to join with the other disciples and they at first didn't want him but that doesn't affect his discipleship, or ours. Now, an Apostle is a different matter.

    G652
    a?p?´st????
    apostolos
    ap-os'-tol-os
    From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.


    This isnt something that anyone can simply make themselves. God has to choose you and make you an Apostle.


    Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

    That's his Apostleship! He had a mission from Christ not to mention he did perform miracles in Christ's name.


    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,


    Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

    Paul was called by Christ to be an Apostle, and Paul was a disciple as well.

    **********************

    Paul is not a false prophet or teacher. He was a welcomed and important part of the beginning of the Christian religion and aided in the early success and growth of the faithful. Christ made him an apostle which is testified by Luke.


    Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
    Acts 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
    Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
    Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
    Acts 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
    Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


    Here Luke makes very clear that Paul is a "chosen vessel unto" God.




    Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

    Luke writes that Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit and if God felt Paul deserved that then who are we to deny it?



    Acts 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
    Acts 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
    Acts 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

    Here through the power of the HS, Paul heals a cripple who never walked in his life.



    Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

    Here Luke calls Paul an Apostle.


    Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, the One raising Him from the dead,


    Paul is indeed a true Apostle of Christ.


    Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
    Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

    Credit for the miracles was given to God, being accomplished through Paul and Barnabas.


    Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
    Acts 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.


    Luke writes of Paul having a vision from the Lord.


    Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

    Paul casts out a demon in Christ's name, and the demon is cast out.


    Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
    Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

    Luke writes that Paul preached Christ died and rose from the dead.


    Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    Yet another miracle God worked through Paul.


    Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
    Acts 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

    Paul casting out evil spirits and healing!

    Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

    Here Christ says that Paul will be made a minister.


    2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
    2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
    2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


    Its pretty clear how Peter feels about "our beloved brother Paul". Peter speaks of those who wrest and struggle to understand Paul's writings and wisdom, struggling unto their own destruction. Take care not to repeat their mistakes.

    2Pe 3:16

    (ALT) as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these [things], in which are some [things] difficult to be understood, which the untaught and unstable twist [fig., distort] to their own destruction, as [they do] also the rest of [the] Scriptures.

    (ASV) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (BBE) And as he said in all his letters, which had to do with these things; in which are some hard sayings, so that, like the rest of the holy Writings, they are twisted by those who are uncertain and without knowledge, to the destruction of their souls.

    (CEV) Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand. Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too.

    (Darby) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; among which some things are hard to be understood, which the untaught and ill-established wrest, as also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (DRB) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (EMTV) as also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

    (GB) As one, that in all his Epistles speaketh of these thinges: among the which some thinges are hard to be vnderstand, which they that are vnlearned and vnstable, wrest, as they do also other Scriptures vnto their owne destruction.

    (GNB) This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction.

    (GW) He talks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in his letters are hard to understand. Ignorant people and people who aren't sure of what they believe distort what Paul says in his letters the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. These people will be destroyed.

    (HNV) as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (ISV) He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.

    (KJV) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (KJVA) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (LITV) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (MKJV) as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).

    (MSG) refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don't know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it.

    (WEB) as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (Webster) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (WNT) That is what he says in all his letters, when speaking in them of these things. In those letters there are some statements hard to understand, which ill-taught and unprincipled people pervert, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own ruin.

    (YLT) as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Earth, still.
    Posts
    135

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Something else that I've found profitable to brand upon my forehead:
    Is we Gentile christians are grafted into Israel, not the other way around.
    And many of the Judaic traditions, Holidays and even rituals will be practiced in the Millennium, the 1,000 year reign of Christ, where both of Jesus's flocks are brought together. One Flock by birthright, the other flock by adoption.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Earth, still.
    Posts
    135

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    There is also OT references to the new covenant being opened to the Gentiles
    Jesus Himself also eluded to the Gospel being opened to the Gentiles once/after the house of Israel rejected it ?
    That is more than enough to convince me Paul was chosen and did not choose himself.

    As for christians observing Torah, I am not offended by it.
    With the single exception of sin sacrifices, I am not offended by christians practicing Torah, and I know my Lord and Master is not either as long as those practices are not used by christians to justify themselves to God Almighty.

    I do not ritually celebrate Jewish Sabat holidays, but I try to observe or acknowledge them on my calendar as much as it is possible by me.
    I do this in efforts to help bring their meaning/purpose to my own memory as often as those holidays occur.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate or teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I make purposeful efforts to not eat unclean animals, even though the smell of bacon cooking is almost enough to cause me to break down a door to get me some, lol.
    I will eat pork if it is put before me when I am a guest, but even as a guest I will still not eat shellfish nor bottom feeding fish.
    I make those purposeful dietary decisions for preventive bodily health reasons, not to observe Torah.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate or teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I purposefully take full advantage of Saturday Sabat as much as possible by me too, but only because of what Jesus said in the NT about the seventh day observance, and also what Genesis proclaims about the seventh day of the week, not because of what Leviticus and Number says about it.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate or teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    What I find remarkable, even ironic is how I do not teach or advocate these things to my fellows on Earth but only keep/observe them in my heart, yet a few, not many, but a few of my closest brethren on Earth totally ignore Roman's chapter 14 and try to present themselves as me condemning them for eating what I would rather not eat, totally disregarding the entire chapter of Roman's 14 just to present themselves as a victim.


    Anyway that is a true story, and I shared all of it with you just to share this next:
    Unless a man, woman or child in my local fellowship is teaching that christians need to practice Torah (not observe Torah but practicing it) to justify themselves before God Almighty, then what harm is done to the body of Christ ?
    The only harm I see that could come from it, is the hypocrites who just to present themselves as a victim they totally not just disregard but totally throw out the entire chapter of Roman's 14

    Rather than take a man's opinion about an individual or group of folks being judaizers, I ought to take a closer look at what makes a judaizer a judaizer.
    And, I submit that even more importantly I should take an even closer look at how easy it is for any of us (including me) to present ourselves as a victim of one of our fellows just because they take full advantage of the freedom that the new covenant provides; as long as we brand on our forehead that this freedom we now enjoy was purchased for us with the blood of the only begotten Son of God, the Lamb of God.
    Last edited by Jacob's Ladder; Aug 21st 2019 at 05:08 PM. Reason: spelling, composition and grammar

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    This will cover most of the things found in the OP but this is something I wrote on the same subject:

    What does the word disciple mean?


    Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.


    3101

    3101 mathetes {math-ay-tes'}

    from 3129; TDNT - 4:415,552; n m

    AV - disciple 268, vr disciple 1; 269

    1) a learner, pupil, disciple



    Act 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
    27 But Barnabas took him, and brought [him] to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that He had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus




    Any Christian is already a disciple of Christ. Paul WAS/IS a disciple. Sure, he tried to join with the other disciples and they at first didn't want him but that doesn't affect his discipleship, or ours. Now, an Apostle is a different matter.

    G652
    a?p?´st????
    apostolos
    ap-os'-tol-os
    From G649; a delegate; specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Christ (“apostle”), (with miraculous powers): - apostle, messenger, he that is sent.


    This isnt something that anyone can simply make themselves. God has to choose you and make you an Apostle.


    Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

    That's his Apostleship! He had a mission from Christ not to mention he did perform miracles in Christ's name.


    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,


    Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)

    Paul was called by Christ to be an Apostle, and Paul was a disciple as well.

    **********************

    Paul is not a false prophet or teacher. He was a welcomed and important part of the beginning of the Christian religion and aided in the early success and growth of the faithful. Christ made him an apostle which is testified by Luke.


    Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
    Acts 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
    Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
    Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
    Acts 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
    Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


    Here Luke makes very clear that Paul is a "chosen vessel unto" God.




    Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,

    Luke writes that Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit and if God felt Paul deserved that then who are we to deny it?



    Acts 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
    Acts 14:9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
    Acts 14:10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

    Here through the power of the HS, Paul heals a cripple who never walked in his life.



    Acts 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

    Here Luke calls Paul an Apostle.


    Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, the One raising Him from the dead,


    Paul is indeed a true Apostle of Christ.


    Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
    Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

    Credit for the miracles was given to God, being accomplished through Paul and Barnabas.


    Acts 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
    Acts 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.


    Luke writes of Paul having a vision from the Lord.


    Acts 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

    Paul casts out a demon in Christ's name, and the demon is cast out.


    Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
    Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

    Luke writes that Paul preached Christ died and rose from the dead.


    Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    Yet another miracle God worked through Paul.


    Acts 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
    Acts 19:12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

    Paul casting out evil spirits and healing!

    Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

    Here Christ says that Paul will be made a minister.


    2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
    2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
    2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
    2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
    2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


    Its pretty clear how Peter feels about "our beloved brother Paul". Peter speaks of those who wrest and struggle to understand Paul's writings and wisdom, struggling unto their own destruction. Take care not to repeat their mistakes.

    2Pe 3:16

    (ALT) as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these [things], in which are some [things] difficult to be understood, which the untaught and unstable twist [fig., distort] to their own destruction, as [they do] also the rest of [the] Scriptures.

    (ASV) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (BBE) And as he said in all his letters, which had to do with these things; in which are some hard sayings, so that, like the rest of the holy Writings, they are twisted by those who are uncertain and without knowledge, to the destruction of their souls.

    (CEV) Paul talks about these same things in all his letters, but part of what he says is hard to understand. Some ignorant and unsteady people even destroy themselves by twisting what he said. They do the same thing with other Scriptures too.

    (Darby) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; among which some things are hard to be understood, which the untaught and ill-established wrest, as also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (DRB) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (EMTV) as also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

    (GB) As one, that in all his Epistles speaketh of these thinges: among the which some thinges are hard to be vnderstand, which they that are vnlearned and vnstable, wrest, as they do also other Scriptures vnto their owne destruction.

    (GNB) This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject. There are some difficult things in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely, as they do with other passages of the Scriptures. So they bring on their own destruction.

    (GW) He talks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in his letters are hard to understand. Ignorant people and people who aren't sure of what they believe distort what Paul says in his letters the same way they distort the rest of the Scriptures. These people will be destroyed.

    (HNV) as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those, there are some things that are hard understand, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (ISV) He speaks about this subject in all his letters. Some things in them are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort to their own destruction, as they do the rest of the Scriptures.

    (KJV) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (KJVA) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

    (LITV) as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (MKJV) as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction).

    (MSG) refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don't know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it.

    (WEB) as also in all of his letters, speaking in them of these things. In those are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unsettled twist, as they also do to the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (Webster) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.

    (WNT) That is what he says in all his letters, when speaking in them of these things. In those letters there are some statements hard to understand, which ill-taught and unprincipled people pervert, just as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own ruin.

    (YLT) as also in all the epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, among which things are certain hard to be understood, which the untaught and unstable do wrest, as also the other Writings, unto their own destruction.
    Thanks for the input I am currently debating this on another site with a so called Christian who has over 100 000 subscribers

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    There is also OT references to the new covenant being opened to the Gentiles
    (Didn't Jesus Himself also elude to the Gospel being opened to the Gentiles once/after the House of Israel rejected it)
    That is more than enough to convince me.

    As for christians observing Torah, I am not offended by it.
    With the single exception of sin sacrifices, I am not offended by christians practicing Torah, and I know my Lord and Master is not either (as long as those practices are not used by christians to justify themselves to God Almighty).

    I do not ritually celebrate Jewish Sabat holidays, but I try to observe/acknowledge them on my calendar as much as it is possible by me.
    I do this in efforts to help bring their meaning/purpose to my own memory as often as those holidays occur.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I make purposeful efforts to not eat unclean animals, even though the smell of bacon cooking is almost enough to cause me to break down a door to get me some, lol.
    I will eat pork if it is put before me when I am a guest, but even as a guest I will still not eat shellfish nor bottom feeding fish.
    I make those purposeful dietary decisions for preventive bodily health reasons, not to observe Torah.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I purposefully take full advantage of Saturday Sabat as much as possible by me too, but only because of what Jesus said in the NT about the seventh day observance, and also what Genesis proclaims about the seventh day of the week, not because of what Leviticus and Number says about it.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    What I find remarkable, even ironic is how I do not teach or advocate these things to my fellows on Earth but only keep/observe them in my heart, yet a few not many, but a few of my closest brethren totally ignore Roman's chapter 14 and
    present themselves as me condemning them for eating what I would rather not eat, totally disregarding the entire chapter of Roman's 14 just to present themselves as a victim.

    Anyway this is a true story, and I shared all of it with you just to share this next:
    Unless a man, woman or child in my local fellowship is teaching that christians need to practice Torah (not observe Torah but practicing it) to justify themselves before God Almighty, then what harm is done to the body of Christ ?
    The only harm I see that could come from it, is the hypocrites who just to present themselves as a victim they totally not just disregard but totally throw out the entire chapter of Roman's 14

    Rather than take a man's opinion about an individual or group of folks being Judaizers, we ought to take a close look at what makes a judaizers a judaizers.
    And I submit that even more importantly we take an even closer look at how easy it is for any of us (including me) to present ourselves as a victim of one of our fellows just because that fellow takes full advantage of the freedom the new covenant provides. (as long as we brand on our forehead that this freedom we now enjoy was purchased for us with the blood of the only begotten Son of God, the Lamb of God)

    There is also OT references to the new covenant being opened to the Gentiles
    (Didn't Jesus Himself also elude to the Gospel being opened to the Gentiles once/after the House of Israel rejected it)
    That is more than enough to convince me.

    As for christians observing Torah, I am not offended by it.
    With the single exception of sin sacrifices, I am not offended by christians practicing Torah, and I know my Lord and Master is not either (as long as those practices are not used by christians to justify themselves to God Almighty).

    I do not ritually celebrate Jewish Sabat holidays, but I try to observe/acknowledge them on my calendar as much as it is possible by me.
    I do this in efforts to help bring their meaning/purpose to my own memory as often as those holidays occur.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I make purposeful efforts to not eat unclean animals, even though the smell of bacon cooking is almost enough to cause me to break down a door to get me some, lol.
    I will eat pork if it is put before me when I am a guest, but even as a guest I will still not eat shellfish nor bottom feeding fish.
    I make those purposeful dietary decisions for preventive bodily health reasons, not to observe Torah.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    I purposefully take full advantage of Saturday Sabat as much as possible by me too, but only because of what Jesus said in the NT about the seventh day observance, and also what Genesis proclaims about the seventh day of the week, not because of what Leviticus and Number says about it.
    I observe/keep this in my heart, but I will not advocate/teach it to my fellows on Earth.

    What I find remarkable, even ironic is how I do not teach or advocate these things to my fellows on Earth but only keep/observe them in my heart, yet a few not many, but a few of my closest brethren totally ignore Roman's chapter 14 and
    present themselves as me condemning them for eating what I would rather not eat, totally disregarding the entire chapter of Roman's 14 just to present themselves as a victim.

    Anyway this is a true story, and I shared all of it with you just to share this next:
    Unless a man, woman or child in my local fellowship is teaching that christians need to practice Torah (not observe Torah but practicing it) to justify themselves before God Almighty, then what harm is done to the body of Christ ?
    The only harm I see that could come from it, is the hypocrites who just to present themselves as a victim they totally not just disregard but totally throw out the entire chapter of Roman's 14

    Rather than take a man's opinion about an individual or group of folks being Judaizers, we ought to take a close look at what makes a judaizers a judaizers.
    And I submit that even more importantly we take an even closer look at how easy it is for any of us (including me) to present ourselves as a victim of one of our fellows just because that fellow takes full advantage of the freedom the new covenant provides. (as long as we brand on our forehead that this freedom we now enjoy was purchased for us with the blood of the only begotten Son of God, the Lamb of God)
    Thanks for your input

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    In dealing with this before I may have mentioned a certain man and friend who attended our Sunday School Bible Study. For a long time he seemed somewhat critical, but otherwise knowledgeable of the word of God and self-controlled. But the pastor had informed me over the course of time that this gentleman, who was a friend of mine, that he often expressed his disagreements with the sermon after church.

    This man, as I got to know him more, brought up lots of extra-biblical material that he acquired or shared on the net. He seemed to focus on "hidden truths," rather than focus on orthodox doctrine.

    One day, this man suddenly, in the midst of our Sunday School class declared that he felt Paul was a false prophet, and proceeded to show areas where he disagreed with Paul. And if I remember correctly I immediately indicated to the man that if Paul was to be doubted, there was no reason for him to be present in our Bible Study. Much of the New Testament involves Paul. If he isn't credible, neither is much of the New Testament!

    The guy just walked out of our class and never returned. I've since engaged him on the street and was polite to him. But he feels he is too ill to get around much.

    All this to say.... I still believe that those who try to pick apart the Scriptures as a whole are trying to "divide and conquer." If they can take apart one critical piece of the Scriptures, they think they can up end Faith, and bring all of Scriptures into question. And if so, then our lives are no longer necessarily in the governance of God, and we have to decide for ourselves how we are to live. This is satanic, and one of his designs.

    The thing that binds all of the Scriptures together, and their critical component parts, is the authority of Christ, as it applies to our lives. The only thing that brings us into conformity with God's will is what Paul stated, that Christ is the sum of all spiritual things, and that anything short of that, including the Law, falls short of bringing our eternal redemption.

    Grace is the only way to Heaven. The Law cannot get us there, since we still have a sin nature. The love of God is both law and grace. Therefore, the love of Christ himself is our pathway to Heaven. Nobody taught this better than Paul.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    In dealing with this before I may have mentioned a certain man and friend who attended our Sunday School Bible Study. For a long time he seemed somewhat critical, but otherwise knowledgeable of the word of God and self-controlled. But the pastor had informed me over the course of time that this gentleman, who was a friend of mine, that he often expressed his disagreements with the sermon after church.

    This man, as I got to know him more, brought up lots of extra-biblical material that he acquired or shared on the net. He seemed to focus on "hidden truths," rather than focus on orthodox doctrine.

    One day, this man suddenly, in the midst of our Sunday School class declared that he felt Paul was a false prophet, and proceeded to show areas where he disagreed with Paul. And if I remember correctly I immediately indicated to the man that if Paul was to be doubted, there was no reason for him to be present in our Bible Study. Much of the New Testament involves Paul. If he isn't credible, neither is much of the New Testament!

    The guy just walked out of our class and never returned. I've since engaged him on the street and was polite to him. But he feels he is too ill to get around much.

    All this to say.... I still believe that those who try to pick apart the Scriptures as a whole are trying to "divide and conquer." If they can take apart one critical piece of the Scriptures, they think they can up end Faith, and bring all of Scriptures into question. And if so, then our lives are no longer necessarily in the governance of God, and we have to decide for ourselves how we are to live. This is satanic, and one of his designs.

    The thing that binds all of the Scriptures together, and their critical component parts, is the authority of Christ, as it applies to our lives. The only thing that brings us into conformity with God's will is what Paul stated, that Christ is the sum of all spiritual things, and that anything short of that, including the Law, falls short of bringing our eternal redemption.

    Grace is the only way to Heaven. The Law cannot get us there, since we still have a sin nature. The love of God is both law and grace. Therefore, the love of Christ himself is our pathway to Heaven. Nobody taught this better than Paul.
    Well said Randy the person I am debating with about Paul thinks that we still need to live in the law

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    14,333
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Well said Randy the person I am debating with about Paul thinks that we still need to live in the law
    That's always the reason. Paul taught against the old law and that upsets people who, for some odd reason, wish to still serve the old law mixing it into the NT law of Christ.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Well said Randy the person I am debating with about Paul thinks that we still need to live in the law
    Paul rightly saw the dangers of continuing in the legalism of the Law after the era of the Law was over. The Law was intended to show that it was a formidable barrier, preventing us from earning our way to eternal life without Christ. Now that Christ has come, he is the way to eternal life. Returning to the Law just returns us back to the place where we can't earn our way to eternal life apart from Christ.

    We remain hopelessly caught in the trap of legalism when we should be enjoying the grace of Christ, who has already given us his spirit of adoption and the right to eternal life. The Spirit of Christ is free, and cannot be earned.

    The only thing required of us is that we put it into use in our lives as a spiritual replacement for our carnality and independence from God. We can now live in a spiritual partnership with God in which we have both freewill and submission to His lordship.

    The Law can never keep us in this relationship since it shows us that our own works, infected with sin, always fall short of what only Christ could do in redeeming us from sin. Everything done under the Law, whether the temple, the priesthood, or the sacrifices, and even the morality, could not achieve a lasting bond with God leading to eternal life. It was all a temporary form of salvation, ultimately depending on Christ's work and grace, which alone delivers to us eternal life through the gift of his Spirit.

    Whatever we do that is moral now is simply a matter of abiding in his righteous Spirit, giving him credit for the merits of this righteousness, which earns for us a way to eternal life. This is called grace, which is both righteousness and forgiveness.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    That's always the reason. Paul taught against the old law and that upsets people who, for some odd reason, wish to still serve the old law mixing it into the NT law of Christ.
    Yes, and I think that living under the Law gives them a system of self-autonomy, in which they choose, apart from God's Spirit, when, where, and how to do good. Of course, this is *not* living in the Spirit of God. Rather, this is a "works" righteousness, conceived of in the heart of rebellious man, who does not want to submit to the lordship of God.

    Quite frankly, the Law of Moses was never meant to be lived by the "autonomous man," who chooses when, where, and how to do good. The Law was in fact a spiritual law, and was intended to be applied spiritually, just as the grace of Christ is meant to be applied spiritually.

    The Pharisees abused the system of Law and turned it into a system of human righteousness, which is why Christ spoke against them. If the Law was properly obeyed, in the time of the Law, it would be a matter of obeying God spiritually, and actually submitting to the righteousness of God.

    And if people understand that the Law was meant to be obeyed spiritually, they would know that it was designed to lead to follow Christ, and not the Law, as a preparation for him, any longer.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Pitt Meadows b.c.
    Posts
    5,092
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Paul rightly saw the dangers of continuing in the legalism of the Law after the era of the Law was over. The Law was intended to show that it was a formidable barrier, preventing us from earning our way to eternal life without Christ. Now that Christ has come, he is the way to eternal life. Returning to the Law just returns us back to the place where we can't earn our way to eternal life apart from Christ.

    We remain hopelessly caught in the trap of legalism when we should be enjoying the grace of Christ, who has already given us his spirit of adoption and the right to eternal life. The Spirit of Christ is free, and cannot be earned.

    The only thing required of us is that we put it into use in our lives as a spiritual replacement for our carnality and independence from God. We can now live in a spiritual partnership with God in which we have both freewill and submission to His lordship.

    The Law can never keep us in this relationship since it shows us that our own works, infected with sin, always fall short of what only Christ could do in redeeming us from sin. Everything done under the Law, whether the temple, the priesthood, or the sacrifices, and even the morality, could not achieve a lasting bond with God leading to eternal life. It was all a temporary form of salvation, ultimately depending on Christ's work and grace, which alone delivers to us eternal life through the gift of his Spirit.

    Whatever we do that is moral now is simply a matter of abiding in his righteous Spirit, giving him credit for the merits of this righteousness, which earns for us a way to eternal life. This is called grace, which is both righteousness and forgiveness.
    Very true which is why the temple had to be destroyed and also the reason why I don't believe that a new temple will ever be built why would God want one?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,497

    Re: Was Paul a false prophet?

    Quote Originally Posted by marty fox View Post
    Very true which is why the temple had to be destroyed and also the reason why I don't believe that a new temple will ever be built why would God want one?
    I completely agree. Thank you!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. False Christ or false prophet?
    By Old man in forum Test Posts
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Jul 22nd 2014, 12:50 AM
  2. False Christ or false prophet?
    By Old man in forum Bible Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jul 10th 2014, 04:04 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •