Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 27 of 27

Thread: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

  1. #16

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    See naturally we think God is like the appearance in the Old Testament ....but when Jesus comes the shroud over the view of God is lifted and we are seeing God in truth , no longer hidden in the dark cloud and mysterious , Christ was sent to reveal who God is , what God wants, How he loves us , that his will is to save us and not condemn ...

    in the Old Testament man saw God from Adams sinful perpective. As soon as Adam sinned , God comes near to him and Adam hears him , becomes afraid of God , and withdraws from his presence....after Gid had b,Essex him and given him rule of the earth made man essentially the king , stewards of Gods creation...

    then you see this nature when the law is given ..the people fear exceedingly , they see lightning and thunder , spdark smoke Gods image is hidden , they stand at the furthest point allowed when he comes upon Sinai ...he speaks just Ten Commandments to them ....and they then beg and plead with Moses " please don't let him say anything else , we will surely die if hpwe see his great fire anymore and hear his words again....."

    And God grants this to,them , so then he makes Moses mediator between God and the people ...God tells Moses what to say to this people who begged not to hear his word for fear of death.....he gives him many many even hundreds of individual commands spanning ten sections of daily life and service to God ....commands to write in the mosaic law ....then says " if you keep all the commandments and ordinances I have given you through my servant Moses , you will be given the land promises to Abrahams descendants....you'll be blessed and live long good lives


    but if you do not hearkened u to all these commandments and ordinances so that you stray from me....then you will be utterly laid waste from the land I gave to your fathers , you'll be cursed , be a scourge of the earth , ive set life before you and blessing , and death and cursing choose life ......

    the people had no faith they though like Adam his presence is certain death , were sinners well surely die , look at his power and jidgement please don't speak anymore your word is certain death....that's what the serpent created in mans hearts and minds we don't see Gods goodness properly because of,our sinful nature , .....but we see Jesus and know God in truth

  2. #17

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Imagine what love the adulteress had for,jesus...when he had saved her life from a terrible death....so then we love jesusnbecause he's our hero , our savior we love him because he have his life in place of,ours ....this then eventually as faith grows in ones heart as we persevere being good soil , receiving his word and bearing his fruit ...we must first love Jesus realizing the personal nature of his suffering and death for our redemption we were lost for certain by Our rebellion against Gods word....and we are saved through the word ofmjesus Christ our savior and lord eternal.

    If we can love Jesus knowing the truth we will value and pursue his words...

    “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
    **John‬ *14:23-24‬ *KJV‬‬

    we love him because

    “For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


    Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *5:14-15, 17-21‬ *KJV‬‬

    We love in truth because he loved us first...and far more

  3. #18

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    I have to disagree with your view on the law and whether he forgave her first and then told her to sin no more ....I'm not sure how you would interpret that he told her not to sin first ....then she repented ...then he forgave her ....it's sort of clear really....
    "Sin no more" means "Don't abuse the mercy you've been given."

    [QUOTE=Follower1977;3527055
    Yes often people don't .....understand the law are you aware the law is written in the Books of Moses ? All the commandments to the children of Israel here's a sample of what I mean by , Gods own commandments through Moses hold sinners to account like I was saying ....the Pharisees bro were strict religious keepers of the law ...they had no mercy, they looked down on those they themselves labeled sinners ...they stood far away and scoffed when Jesus sat and ate and befriended the " sinners " and then they went and thanked God they were not like the sinners ......they were self righteous forgetting thier own sins until Jesus said " look at your own self , don't worry about your fellow sinners "[/quote]The religious leaders who hated Jesus were not strict keepers of the law, because the law says to love God and neighbor and they weren't Do I.g that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977;3527055
    here's the law

    this is the law...the sinner is condemned by Gods commandment.

    “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, [B
    they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day[/B]. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
    **Numbers‬ *15:32-36‬ *KJV‬‬

    “He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

    And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

    And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.”
    **Exodus‬ *21:12, 15-17, 23-26‬ *KJV‬‬

    remember this is the law of Moses the commandments given him by God .....

    look at this one wow huh? Gods commandment to his people for someone introducing false worship

    “And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *13:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    this one for a girl who has been found not a virgin at her betrothal

    Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *22:21‬ *KJV‬‬

    ......the Pharisees understood the law well it's why they rejected Jesus Christ .
    They rejected Jesus because they didn't know the law well. Law that condemns you should cause you to seek mercy (Gal.3;24).

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977;3527055
    “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And [B
    not as Moses,[/B] which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

    But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

    But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬
    So Moses was preaching Christ to them, but Christ is only seen in the OT by faith in God (Heb.4:2).

    [QUOTE=Follower1977;3527055
    brother I'm not even sure we disagree honestly ....but you seriously think the woman repented first and then Jesus forgave her in that example from John?[/quote]Absolutely. Facing death, she no doubt desired Gods mercy.

    [QUOTE=Follower1977;3527055
    It seems to me like she's as good as dead under law , Jesus gives her grace , then tells her now that you have seen mercy , go and repent or " sin no more" another translation says " go and leave your life of sin" [/quote]Repentance begins with sorrow over past sins. His instruction to sin no more is comparable to Heb.10:26-31.

    [QUOTE=Follower1977;3527055
    under the mosaic law , this is not a possibility , showing as everything does Jesus is born under the law for this purpose.

    “Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
    **Galatians‬ *4:3-6‬ *KJV‬‬

    but when he is anointed at his baptism , and begins preaching the gospel .....he's speaking the new and eternal covenant .,so see I'm thinking you are looking at the rp Ten Commandments thinking like the ruler did I keep those I'm in the kingdom.....that's not so. We are not accountable to Moses , were accountable to the word God sent from heaven , which Moses law said would superceed the law of Moses when the messiah came , Peter also confirms that Moses was speaking about Jesus Christ . We are accountable to things like the sermon on the mount .....if you ever meet a person who is fully obedient to the sermon on the mount ......I hope to meet him also .[/quote]The sermon on the mount teaches us that even thinking evil is sin. This leaves no doubt we all need God's forgiveness.

    [QUOTE=Follower1977;3527055
    it's about pressing toward the goal set before us , beholding with faith Jesus Christ believing the gospel ....but brother I still ink your stuck on " Jesus did not die for the sins of the believer , were not forgiven by his sacrifice " and that is where the disconnect I think is ...[/quote]JESUS DID DIE FOR OUR SINS, BUT "FOR" DOES NOT MEAN IN PLACE OF. God doesn't condemn the innocent for what the guilty dol

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Jesus is the sacrifice for all sins according to the first covenant no one will be punished who accepts Jesus for Moses laws ...
    People who put their faith in Jesus will be punished by those who hate God, as Jesus was,

    But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

    And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. Jn.16:3

    Jesus suffered at hands of sinners for obeying his Father,

    when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called, [b]because Christ also suffered FOR us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps. 1Pet.2:20-21

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    here's the scripture

    “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”
    **Hebrews‬ *9:15‬ *KJV‬‬

    we who are on Christ , are looking to his doctrine for our accountability see how the law is the spirit of holding guilty the sinner and demanding death?

    Read the sermon on the mount , it's contrary spirit of mercy don't stone others, don't judge and condemn others , if someone strikes you , don't fight them back turn your other cheek , not an eye for and eye like the law ....

    the first testament is about holding sinners accountable , sin is death it's been so from Eden forward when it sprang forth in Man , though it was already in the world , it came into man in Eden . And brought death to mankind

    “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
    **Romans‬ *5:12‬ *KJV‬‬


    all are dead under the law all have sinned all are dead , Jesus does this brother consider just this set of verses if nothing else consider it in prayer

    “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”
    **Romans‬ *5:6-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    To be forgiven in Christ we have the law of Christ .....Moses commanded sacrifices for forgiveness ...God desires mercy . Forgive and you will be forgiven ....be merciful and you will receive mercy ....

    brother that is the nature of Moses law , it is not to show mercy to a sinner. Again the adulterer ...by the written law of God
    Well, if the religious leaders considered their own lustful thoughts as adultery as Jesus said we should, they would have realized they were no better than the woman they tried to condemn, but this is getting redundant.

    It was never my intention to condemn the neighbor who robbed the house. Temporary judgement can be a useful tool to teach sinners about their need for repentance. We use it all the time without malice or hatred or contempt in training our own children. The Spirit of Christ in us is not to condemn. This doesn't mean we never hold people accountable for wrongdoing.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,502

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    "Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God"

    I agree , the word of God. You first have to accept the gospel as the word of God however, is all I would add. The word of salvation.
    ...
    It's not practical to say " embrace the nature of Christ " but the word brother , that is and has been from the very first how God speaks his will to,us , and how he works in us , leads and guides us , his word . It's the gospel when Jesus began to preach ...salvation began to shine forth ..practically we abide in his words we keep his doctrine and it will change the inner things ...

    you or I shouldn't be looking at other men , but our own selves we'll never make a judgement on anyone else
    I'm not seeing that we really disagree too much. You seem to deny, however, that we have Christ's nature, but then seem to agree that our acceptance of his word enables us to participate in his nature?

    And you seem to think that discerning one Christian from another is a form of "judgmentalism?" We may disagree on some of the technical language, but otherwise I think we're close to the same track.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Pacific NW, USA
    Posts
    11,502

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    I like what you said there a lot bro about " God wants a sort of contrition " see this is what Paul is saying about Godly sorrow ...to be sorry for our sins is a godly thing it's what God wants from sinners.
    Yes, I'm trying to point out the differences between one who adopts the nature of Christ for Salvation and one who merely adopts the knowledge of Christ in his mind, without being spiritually reborn. There is a profound difference, and it makes all the difference in the world for Salvation.

    True Christian repentance requires the Rebirth, because only when we have adopted Christ in our heart do we know what true contrition is. It is departing from our carnal impulses and returning to making Christ the Lord of our life, letting his Spirit within us generate good deeds, as we act out our faith in him. Believing in him we know that his nature is good, and ours has been corrupted by the ways of the independent Man. And so, we know we must always go back to living in his divine nature, adapting our flesh to the new spiritual nature we received at Salvation.

    By contrast, the unborn again believer in Christ merely adapts his life to the knowledge of Christ, and conforms intellectually to the pattern of Christian living. He may put into effect spiritual principles. But not having Christ's new nature within him he never truly yields up his independent nature to the supremacy of Christ's divine nature.

    If we are to truly repent as Christians we must begin by knowing what the Rebirth is. We must recognize that it is a complete displacement of our carnal, independent ways with our willful participation, by faith, in the divine nature of Christ. This enables us to live in Christ all the time, and not just periodically. Sin is a break in the continuity of living in Christ's love. If we don't have Christ living within us, there is no real continuity, since we have not really even started to live in him. We are just patterning our life after him.

    I'm not at all against men patterning their lives after Christ. But to continue to ignore the necessity of Christ living in us is to practice Phariseeism, an external form of religion. Ultimately, what we would be doing is pursuing an independent way of living from that of Christ, picking and choosing when to adapt to Christian behavior, and when not to.

  6. #21

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Originally Posted by Follower1977
    I have to disagree with your view on the law and whether he forgave her first and then told her to sin no more ....I'm not sure how you would interpret that he told her not to sin first ....then she repented ...then he forgave her ....it's sort of clear really....
    "Sin no more" means "Don't abuse the mercy you've been given."

    Originally posted by Follower1977
    Yes often people don't .....understand the law are you aware the law is written in the Books of Moses ? All the commandments to the children of Israel here's a sample of what I mean by , Gods own commandments through Moses hold sinners to account like I was saying ....the Pharisees bro were strict religious keepers of the law ...they had no mercy, they looked down on those they themselves labeled sinners ...they stood far away and scoffed when Jesus sat and ate and befriended the " sinners " and then they went and thanked God they were not like the sinners ......they were self righteous forgetting thier own sins until Jesus said " look at your own self , don't worry about your fellow sinners "
    The religious leaders who hated Jesus were not strict keepers of the law, because the law says to love God and neighbor and they weren't Do I.g that.

    Originally Posted by Follower1977
    here's the law

    this is the law...the sinner is condemned by Gods commandment.

    “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, [B
    they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day[/B]. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
    **Numbers‬ *15:32-36‬ *KJV‬‬

    “He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

    And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

    And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.”
    **Exodus‬ *21:12, 15-17, 23-26‬ *KJV‬‬

    remember this is the law of Moses the commandments given him by God .....

    look at this one wow huh? Gods commandment to his people for someone introducing false worship

    “And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *13:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    this one for a girl who has been found not a virgin at her betrothal

    “Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *22:21‬ *KJV‬‬

    ......the Pharisees understood the law well it's why they rejected Jesus Christ .
    They rejected Jesus because they didn't know the law well. Law that condemns you should cause you to seek mercy (Gal.3;24).

    Originally Posted by Follower
    “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And [B
    not as Moses,[/B] which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

    But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

    But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬
    So Moses was preaching Christ to them, but Christ is only seen in the OT by faith in God (Heb.4:2).

    Originally posted by Follower1977
    brother I'm not even sure we disagree honestly ....but you seriously think the woman repented first and then Jesus forgave her in that example from John?
    Absolutely. Facing death, she no doubt desired Gods mercy.

    Originally posted by Follower1977
    It seems to me like she's as good as dead under law , Jesus gives her grace , then tells her now that you have seen mercy , go and repent or " sin no more" another translation says " go and leave your life of sin"
    Repentance begins with sorrow over past sins. His instruction to sin no more is comparable to Heb.10:26-31.

    Originally posted by Follower1977
    under the mosaic law , this is not a possibility , showing as everything does Jesus is born under the law for this purpose.

    “Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
    **Galatians‬ *4:3-6‬ *KJV‬‬

    but when he is anointed at his baptism , and begins preaching the gospel .....he's speaking the new and eternal covenant .,so see I'm thinking you are looking at the rp Ten Commandments thinking like the ruler did I keep those I'm in the kingdom.....that's not so. We are not accountable to Moses , were accountable to the word God sent from heaven , which Moses law said would superceed the law of Moses when the messiah came , Peter also confirms that Moses was speaking about Jesus Christ . We are accountable to things like the sermon on the mount .....if you ever meet a person who is fully obedient to the sermon on the mount ......I hope to meet him also .
    The sermon on the mount teaches us that even thinking evil is sin. This leaves no doubt we all need God's forgiveness.

    Originally posted by Follower1977
    it's about pressing toward the goal set before us , beholding with faith Jesus Christ believing the gospel ....but brother I still ink your stuck on " Jesus did not die for the sins of the believer , were not forgiven by his sacrifice " and that is where the disconnect I think is ...
    JESUS DID DIE FOR OUR SINS, BUT "FOR" DOES NOT MEAN IN PLACE OF. God doesn't condemn the innocent for what the guilty dol

    Originally Posted by Follower1977
    Jesus is the sacrifice for all sins according to the first covenant no one will be punished who accepts Jesus for Moses laws ...
    People who put their faith in Jesus will be punished by those who hate God, as Jesus was,

    But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

    And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. Jn.16:3

    Jesus suffered at hands of sinners for obeying his Father,

    when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called, [b]because Christ also suffered FOR us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps. 1Pet.2:20-21

    Originally Posted by Follower1977
    here's the scripture

    “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”
    **Hebrews‬ *9:15‬ *KJV‬‬

    we who are on Christ , are looking to his doctrine for our accountability see how the law is the spirit of holding guilty the sinner and demanding death?

    Read the sermon on the mount , it's contrary spirit of mercy don't stone others, don't judge and condemn others , if someone strikes you , don't fight them back turn your other cheek , not an eye for and eye like the law ....

    the first testament is about holding sinners accountable , sin is death it's been so from Eden forward when it sprang forth in Man , though it was already in the world , it came into man in Eden . And brought death to mankind

    “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
    **Romans‬ *5:12‬ *KJV‬‬

    all are dead under the law all have sinned all are dead , Jesus does this brother consider just this set of verses if nothing else consider it in prayer

    “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”
    **Romans‬ *5:6-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    To be forgiven in Christ we have the law of Christ .....Moses commanded sacrifices for forgiveness ...God desires mercy . Forgive and you will be forgiven ....be merciful and you will receive mercy ....

    brother that is the nature of Moses law , it is not to show mercy to a sinner. Again the adulterer ...by the written law of God
    Well, if the religious leaders considered their own lustful thoughts as adultery as Jesus said we should, they would have realized they were no better than the woman they tried to condemn, but this is getting redundant.

    It was never my intention to condemn the neighbor who robbed the house. Temporary judgement can be a useful tool to teach sinners about their need for repentance. We use it all the time without malice or hatred or contempt in training our own children. The Spirit of Christ in us is not to condemn. This doesn't mean we never hold people accountable for wrongdoing.

  7. #22

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    "Sin no more" means "Don't abuse the mercy you've been given."

    The religious leaders who hated Jesus were not strict keepers of the law, because the law says to love God and neighbor and they weren't Do I.g that.


    They rejected Jesus because they didn't know the law well. Law that condemns you should cause you to seek mercy (Gal.3;24).


    So Moses was preaching Christ to them, but Christ is only seen in the OT by faith in God (Heb.4:2).

    Absolutely. Facing death, she no doubt desired Gods mercy.

    Repentance begins with sorrow over past sins. His instruction to sin no more is comparable to Heb.10:26-31.

    The sermon on the mount teaches us that even thinking evil is sin. This leaves no doubt we all need God's forgiveness.

    JESUS DID DIE FOR OUR SINS, BUT "FOR" DOES NOT MEAN IN PLACE OF. God doesn't condemn the innocent for what the guilty dol


    People who put their faith in Jesus will be punished by those who hate God, as Jesus was,

    But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

    And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. Jn.16:3

    Jesus suffered at hands of sinners for obeying his Father,

    when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called, [b]because Christ also suffered FOR us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps. 1Pet.2:20-21


    Well, if the religious leaders considered their own lustful thoughts as adultery as Jesus said we should, they would have realized they were no better than the woman they tried to condemn, but this is getting redundant.

    It was never my intention to condemn the neighbor who robbed the house. Temporary judgement can be a useful tool to teach sinners about their need for repentance. We use it all the time without malice or hatred or contempt in training our own children. The Spirit of Christ in us is not to condemn. This doesn't mean we never hold people accountable for wrongdoing.


    yes brother it does mean that if someone wrongs you , Jesus Christ has said " forgive them and you will be forgiven "

    do we earn forgiveness ? Can anyone earn forgiveness for what they have already done ? Grace begats forgiveness , and God has not held you to account for your sins , that's the actual gospel , you and I both deserve to end up in hell , because according to Gods word were sinners and sinners are most certain,y condemned .


    notice Jesus doesn't accuse people he forgives them and already knows thier sins ...were the people nailing him to the cross ...sorry and relenting ? Or did he say forgive them father they know not what they do "?


    There's nothing we can do for God to forgive us , yes Jesus died I my place for all I have done wrong ....I'm not sure why that is an offens to you , he did it in your place as well . And in exchange he said believe in me who did this for you ....and you will have eternal life . So yeah I'd say it's in your place he died , for your sins , when you become a believer , you then accept his death for all your wrongs ....it's taught in the law and prophets the sins of the people are placed upon the sacrifice .....

    nothing really to argue about though ....I think maybe it's a matter of you not liking the term died in the place of the sinner ...but it's what he did though , he actually became sin for us and died ....that is also written ....

  8. #23

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    "Sin no more" means "Don't abuse the mercy you've been given."

    The religious leaders who hated Jesus were not strict keepers of the law, because the law says to love God and neighbor and they weren't Do I.g that.


    They rejected Jesus because they didn't know the law well. Law that condemns you should cause you to seek mercy (Gal.3;24).


    So Moses was preaching Christ to them, but Christ is only seen in the OT by faith in God (Heb.4:2).

    Absolutely. Facing death, she no doubt desired Gods mercy.

    Repentance begins with sorrow over past sins. His instruction to sin no more is comparable to Heb.10:26-31.

    The sermon on the mount teaches us that even thinking evil is sin. This leaves no doubt we all need God's forgiveness.

    JESUS DID DIE FOR OUR SINS, BUT "FOR" DOES NOT MEAN IN PLACE OF. God doesn't condemn the innocent for what the guilty dol


    People who put their faith in Jesus will be punished by those who hate God, as Jesus was,

    But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. Jn.15:21

    And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. Jn.16:3

    Jesus suffered at hands of sinners for obeying his Father,

    when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called, [b]because Christ also suffered FOR us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps. 1Pet.2:20-21


    Well, if the religious leaders considered their own lustful thoughts as adultery as Jesus said we should, they would have realized they were no better than the woman they tried to condemn, but this is getting redundant.

    It was never my intention to condemn the neighbor who robbed the house. Temporary judgement can be a useful tool to teach sinners about their need for repentance. We use it all the time without malice or hatred or contempt in training our own children. The Spirit of Christ in us is not to condemn. This doesn't mean we never hold people accountable for wrongdoing.


    I think maybe after re reading this ....your saying " hold to account" that would mean a thief is held to the accountability of the law and therefore is prosecuted according to the law "

    I think now you are saying " it's not wrong to edifying someone " which I agree with completely . So if my best friend is cheating on his wife .....I should definAtely tell him what Jesus says about it ...holding him to account though is different , the law says adulterers must be stoned to death...that's being held to account for the sin...he didnt hold her to account , he knew her guilt and freely forgave her first , and then told her now go and leave your life of sin...


    hopefully the issue was hold to account , Jesus isn't about holding to account sinners , but teaching life to the dead by rights....were only saved because our God actually loves us enough to freely forgive us ...were all guilty by his law ....the only way then is forgiveness and repentance .


    anyways yes I agree it's sort of circular which happens a lot when dealing with text , rather than a covnersation in person....it's easy to mis interpret " tone" of another person, and we often say the same things differently ....sort of like the four gospels say the same things in different ways ...God bless

  9. #24

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Yes, I'm trying to point out the differences between one who adopts the nature of Christ for Salvation and one who merely adopts the knowledge of Christ in his mind, without being spiritually reborn. There is a profound difference, and it makes all the difference in the world for Salvation.

    True Christian repentance requires the Rebirth, because only when we have adopted Christ in our heart do we know what true contrition is. It is departing from our carnal impulses and returning to making Christ the Lord of our life, letting his Spirit within us generate good deeds, as we act out our faith in him. Believing in him we know that his nature is good, and ours has been corrupted by the ways of the independent Man. And so, we know we must always go back to living in his divine nature, adapting our flesh to the new spiritual nature we received at Salvation.

    By contrast, the unborn again believer in Christ merely adapts his life to the knowledge of Christ, and conforms intellectually to the pattern of Christian living. He may put into effect spiritual principles. But not having Christ's new nature within him he never truly yields up his independent nature to the supremacy of Christ's divine nature.

    If we are to truly repent as Christians we must begin by knowing what the Rebirth is. We must recognize that it is a complete displacement of our carnal, independent ways with our willful participation, by faith, in the divine nature of Christ. This enables us to live in Christ all the time, and not just periodically. Sin is a break in the continuity of living in Christ's love. If we don't have Christ living within us, there is no real continuity, since we have not really even started to live in him. We are just patterning our life after him.

    I'm not at all against men patterning their lives after Christ. But to continue to ignore the necessity of Christ living in us is to practice Phariseeism, an external form of religion. Ultimately, what we would be doing is pursuing an independent way of living from that of Christ, picking and choosing when to adapt to Christian behavior, and when not to.

    yes bro I'm saying to believe the gospel imparts the new nature ...I agree there's a difference in believing Jesus is real , and not doing anything you learn .

    if we don't believe what Jesus taught , we can't be changed . If we do believe what Jesus taught and commit our faith to him , he his word , the knowledge and understanding he taught , will change us .

    remember what Gods word is able to do , if he speaks , it is living and powerful able to change darkness into light .....it works in our minds and hearts the same way , the more we will accept and believe that Jesus is teaching his followers , those beliefs will change the way we think and view others, life , death ...everything changes through knowledge . But we have to first believe his words and know the power of his word to effectually work and change us .


    obedience also works this way first a young babe in Christ believes the message of the cross and the name of Jesus , Gods son ...they grow a bit ...they follow after knowing him they learn things from him that impart obedience within us because we believe ....as we grow we see him teaching us " why do you call me lord and don't do the things I'm teaching you ? Or as we grow up " unless you repent you to will also perish like all the others ...

    see those things go into a believers mind and heart because the one they love , Jesus Christ thier lord and savior is the one saying it , our faith is in him who said these things knowing his power to do what he says ....he is carefully shaping us , because see we're not all completely inherently evil..

    one man commits sexual sins because his heart has lust inside ....but he's an honest person lying isn't an issue in his heart....but lust is ....so there's the word there in his doctrine to correct it by convicting a person first of the issue that causes the sin , lust creates our action of lust which is adultery, fornication ect....the new nature comes through faith in him. And believing him....what happens is greed , pride , grudge bearing , lust , ect...those things become reproved throug Jesus rebuking them , and because we believe him it's able to change the mind and heart , the darkness in us all whether it's the lust, greed, pride, hate, grudges, all of the issues in us which cause us to sin...

    a pure heart that is shaped by Jesus doctrine , will lead us in the right paths ....so that sexual sins become as they are something we don't desire inside , and then we don't do those things ....just using list as an ape ample ...the knowledge Jesus imparts , is the new nature found in Christ , because we fix our faith in him , were saved through this sanctification along with the blood which speaks according to his words ...

    but he commits adultery

  10. #25

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Repentance, not in mans ability, if it was, not all comes from Christ, but it does, forgiveness when we are evil, faith when we are faithless, light when we are blind only in darkness, no ears to hear with opened up, from being flesh that has nothing to do with the Spirit, to be born of the Spirit so we be flesh no more as that which is Spirit is Spirit. Man talks when he has no idea, and just because man is cunning as God says, they think they can fool us with the words they try to put together and the scriptures they mix for their on agendas.

    Repentance:

    2*Timothy*2:25*In*meekness*instructing*those*that* oppose*themselves;*if*God*peradventure*will*give*t hem*repentance*to*the*acknowledging*of*the*truth;
    John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.26*And*that*they*may*recover*themselves*out*of *the*snare*of*the*devil,*who*are*taken*captive*by* him*AT*HIS*WILL.

    Forgiveness:

    1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
    13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
    14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
    15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
    16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Chosen out of the world, all man is of the world until chosen out of it and they are not of the Father..

    John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Antichrists pretend to be with the Apostles, falsely teaching Christ, they are manifested, we have understnding from God, they are seen for what they are, teaching what they do not know at all..

    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
    20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
    21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

    Any lie they tell shows they are not of the truth, and their biggest lie is they are seducers and we are told by God they are finished, as no man need to teach us, do we not understand all things ? They will continue and ignore this message.

    1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
    27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

  11. #26

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    yes brother it does mean that if someone wrongs you , Jesus Christ has said " forgive them and you will be forgiven "
    Of course we should forgive others who have wronged us. We should correct them, not condemn them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    do we earn forgiveness ? Can anyone earn forgiveness for what they have already done ? Grace begats forgiveness , and God has not held you to account for your sins , that's the actual gospel , you and I both deserve to end up in hell , because according to Gods word were sinners and sinners are most certain,y condemned .
    God's grace doesn't "beget" forgiveness. It's meant to lead us to repentance,

    Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that
    the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Rom.2:4

    And the repentant will have forgiveness,

    He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Pro.28:13

    The unrepentant are in a state of condemnation,

    He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jn.3:18

    And "believing in Jesus" is to believe what Jesus said,

    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. Lk.13:3

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    notice Jesus doesn't accuse people he forgives them and already knows thier sins ...were the people nailing him to the cross ...sorry and relenting ? Or did he say forgive them father they know not what they do "?
    Jesus forgave those who were ignorant of what was really happening, which was the condemnation of God by man and this is really where the gospel has been distorted. God wasn't pouring his wrath out on his Son. Men were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    There's nothing we can do for God to forgive us , yes Jesus died I my place for all I have done wrong ....I'm not sure why that is an offens to you , he did it in your place as well . And in exchange he said believe in me who did this for you ....and you will have eternal life . So yeah I'd say it's in your place he died , for your sins , when you become a believer , you then accept his death for all your wrongs ....it's taught in the law and prophets the sins of the people are placed upon the sacrifice .....
    Condemning Jesus was putting sin on him. Beating Jesus, spitting on him, mocking him, was putting sin on him. The purpose of his sacrifice is for confession of sin against God. Jesus wasn't telling people, "There's nothing we can do for God to forgive us", when he said, "Repent."

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    nothing really to argue about though ....I think maybe it's a matter of you not liking the term died in the place of the sinner ...but it's what he did though , he actually became sin for us and died ....that is also written ....
    Became sin to who? Here's who,

    Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner. Jn.9:24

  12. #27

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Interesting train of thought, in light of other debates I'm engaging in. It's similar to the Predestination argument. So please indulge me, because this is the only way I can presently respond to it.

    Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God. I believe Adam and Eve showed that Man can respond to satanic rebellion without completely rejecting God's word. He and she accepted a mixed word of both good and evil.

    What God wants, for our Salvation, is a kind of contrition that goes back to only wanting the good, to want to follow God's word, and to reject all rebellion. This is both repentance and a complete change of nature, a change from Adam's fallen nature to the nature of Christ, who was sinless and only wanted to do God's will.

    So how does this take place in a practical sense? We embrace Christ's nature in our heart, even while we still have the Adamic nature in our current physical beings. This means we can truly want to do only the righteousness of Christ, and to reject all sin, while at the same time being pulled, by the lust of our flesh, to sin.

    Does this conflict indicate a lack of genuine repentance? No, what it indicates is that a true change of heart has been obtained, but the weakness of the flesh remains. We may indeed capitulate to sin without it indicating incorrigibility, or a complete failure to repent.

    There is a profound difference between the Born Again Christian, who receives Christ's nature in his heart, and the "Christian" who receives the knowledge of Christ without fully adopting his nature into his heart. Such a "nominal Christian" may produce a lot of good from the knowledge of Christ, and it may indeed by genuine.

    However, the nominal Christian, who hasn't really allowed Christ to be embedded in his heart, will ultimately expose his "good deeds" as self-motivated, and not purely motivated from the nature of Christ within him. Independence from God will have been preserved by refusing to have Christ's nature embedded in his heart, and lots of works, independent, of Christ, will be performed. Good works will be performed, but the motive will never be the motivations of Christ himself, but only those of the rebellious man, who wants to both do good and maintain his own independence from Christ.

    This kind of man repeats his sin not due to the weakness of the flesh, but more, due to the unwillingness to install Christ's nature in his heart. As such, he can never act purely out of the nature of Christ, but only in imitation of him, by the knowledge he did receive in his mind.
    Good stuff 👍 right there. Nominal verses all in with the heart. I have a ways to go, perhaps a long way to go I'm afraid. It's a matter of the heart, a battle for the mind, an ability (not of ourselves although we must seek it) to let go and submit.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Practical Bible Teaching
    By alewiscii in forum Growing in Christ
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Apr 7th 2018, 02:40 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •