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Thread: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

  1. #1

    Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    You and I , are neighbors ...we get along well everything is peaceful and all is well. One day , you come home from work and everything in your house , is gone...you've been robbed . so , you come over to my house to ask if o saw anyone suspicious , I open the door and you notice your wife's jewelry box behind me on a coffee table. ....so , the jig is basically up right ? I'm caught . you are fully aware " this guy robbed my house while I was at work , this neighbor who I've always respected and gotten along great with , he has done a great wrong to me ...a great offense .


    But , let's suppose here for edification , you happen to be the worlds most forgiving person , you really want nothing to change between us , you want the relationship we've always had so , you ask me to come outside with you . And you tell me " Look bro, we've always had a good relationship , our families get along well , no one argues and fights over silly things , we've never been disrupt ful of each other's property or daily life ect...but I know you robbed my house , I have a security camera actually , but I also saw my property on your coffe table "

    so , of course I realize "I'm caught he knows ... Man I'm going to prison now for sure ...I'm done for ..... To my surprise however , your next response astounds me.

    " bro , I'm just going to forget this all ever happened , I want to just continue being neighbors , I'll buy all new things for my house , my family . I care about you , and maybe you had some reason you did this , but anyways I just wanted to tell you , I forgive you and I'm going to truly forget , totally remit what you have done, what I ask of you , is that you repent of what you have done here , forget it also your self , forget that you really should be going to prison and lose your families home and everything .....and you just go back to being the neighbor who would never steal from me , or lie about me , or hurt my other children in the neighborhood ....don't steal and lie and shear them either my friend

    ......this is the covenant I'm making with you neighbor . Because of my Grace , I'm giving you this offer and it's all true , I'll never remember this , never bring it up, never hold what you have done ...over your head ....even if you make small mistakes along the way you know we've always been imperfect bro ....just repent of being the naieghbor who is gonna rob me and things such as that ....I'm telling you this in true Grace my friend , because I care ....

    But if I go to work again and you come and rob me again because you think I'll never charge you with your offenses yo me and my children ....you have condemned your own self to a prison term .

    Again bro , we all make some mistakes .....but to rob me as I'm away working , rather than watching over my property for thieves , that's not a mistake a second time you do it I just want you to know these things , enjoy the rest of your day and I hope to see you at the big barbecue were planning up in the hill someday soon ....


    Because I forgive the way someone has done me wrong for years and years , doesn't mean they are free to continue treating me wrong , and claiming im bound somehow by grace always forgive them regardless if they won't stop robbing me , throwing eggs at my house, playing music so loud all through the night , posting floodlights into my windows as my neighbors ......I understand why eternity has to be wherein dwelleth righteousness , because eternity would be like this world is if sin is redeemed unto sin .....repentance doesn't mean you gotta be perfect but you have to be conscious of what you've done , and understand the principle of not continuing in it willfully when Gods word is calling for you to repent .

    Theres always forgiveness as we grow , and simply believing the true gospel causes growth ....the first thing Jesus said in his ministry was " the kingdom of God has come near , repent Ye and believe the gospel "


    it begins when we acknowledge its truth and preeminence in the Christian walk , repetnance begins in the mind and heart when we take Gods word to heart and believe it as if ......it is a matter of life eternal and death. If we construct a theology of salvation lacking repentance and its place , were straying from the gospel. Again it's not about one day now I'll never sin again cause I said I repent , repentance begins when a believer decides " Jesus has clearly said I need to accept repentance in faith and believe the things he says about it....

    It begins as a commitment , endures throughout our lives as a battle though at times we find stretches of peace and obedience , other times when temptations come we struggle and reach for help that we may walk upright ....but still sometimes an honest Christian will admit they fail in some ways to live up to the standards God has set before us, repentance is something we need always through life so then if we stray somehow or fall , were walking in the repentance in which we first began , understanding at the first .....this is the beginning of a lifetime commitment to learn and grow in Christ , my success and progress is not the measure for me .....but my hearts commitment to faith in him who is my lord , to learn and grow and trust in him into obedience ...

    Once Jesus truly has your hearts core , well follow him forever though we stumble at times and still repent , we do not willfully knowingly serve sin any longer without reprimand and danger of soul , we stand in his light , and he brings us into the repentance that will transform the mind and heart. Think about repentance not as some " fire and brimstone " preachers crazy word , but as a central principle of the gospel ....realizing it begins in the mind when we don't deny its place in salvation , what we accept as truth shapes our faith , and thus determines our lives we walk by faith

  2. #2

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Considering the thinking , look at what Paul claims his mi is try to Jew and gentile taught in summary

    “Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
    **Acts‬ *26:19-20, 22-23‬ *KJV‬‬


    same thing Jesus said about Moses and the prophets and himself...but has different details of what light means...

    “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
    **Luke‬ *24:44, 46-49‬ *KJV‬‬

    Paul says he was teaching repentance and faith in Christ , doing works meet for repentance meaning , we walk daily in repentance, just daily life we treat people the way God has taught us to treat them , that's worthy of repentance thatn he has granted us . Like in the story we have to stop robbing and harassing the neighbors , or were not going to be invited to the better neighborhood, that's all repentance is , a lot of folks don't really go around lying cheating and stealing , plotting crimes against others....so " repentance" shouldn't seem some un reachable goal , most of us just need different adjustments ..

    . Maybe we need to stop being somjidgemental toward others ...or maybe we tend to spread gossip and slander ...maybe we are always looking for opportunities to fornicate and commit adultery, or to do the many things we know as Christians , are not Gods will , but rather are the will of the devil, sin.

    we just need to be willing to hear the things he teaches like the dangers of loving money and possessions , and the greed which developers in our hearts and minds....sometimes were great people but also , we look honestly at our lives and were very superficial , very worldly , all the things we pursue , nothing really among them are the things he said to pursue in the gospel ...were supposed to "seek first the kingdom of God , and his righteousness and not worry about the other worldly things ...God promises to provide if we seek him"

    or maybe we just plain don't think it's right to share with someone else who didn't work as hard as you , but they have need , when you have plenty ,,..maybe you need to hear about brotherly love of the Good Samaritan who goes out of his way , and spends his own money to help another in need ...maybe you need to read about the jidgement of Christ feeding the hungry, clothing the naked , comforting the needy....from knowing the things we are lacking like this example , we believe in Jesus , and he is saying these things our lord and savior is teaching them to us , this brings us to repentance in the mind and heart where the issue lies for us .

    if we get our minds and hearts right before God in repentance , his way , our actions and lives will follow the heart created in Christ rather than the heart inherited from the knowledge of good and evil.

  3. #3

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Hi Follower 1977.
    I think holding people accountable for the purpose of correction is a good thing. The Bible says,

    When a sentence is not executed at once against a crime, the human heart is encouraged to do evil. Even though a sinner might commit a hundred crimes and still live a long time, yet I know that it will go well with God-fearing people - for they stand in fear before him. But it will not go well with the wicked, nor will they prolong their days like a shadow, because they do not stand in fear before God. Ecc.8:11-13

  4. #4
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    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Interesting train of thought, in light of other debates I'm engaging in. It's similar to the Predestination argument. So please indulge me, because this is the only way I can presently respond to it.

    Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God. I believe Adam and Eve showed that Man can respond to satanic rebellion without completely rejecting God's word. He and she accepted a mixed word of both good and evil.

    What God wants, for our Salvation, is a kind of contrition that goes back to only wanting the good, to want to follow God's word, and to reject all rebellion. This is both repentance and a complete change of nature, a change from Adam's fallen nature to the nature of Christ, who was sinless and only wanted to do God's will.

    So how does this take place in a practical sense? We embrace Christ's nature in our heart, even while we still have the Adamic nature in our current physical beings. This means we can truly want to do only the righteousness of Christ, and to reject all sin, while at the same time being pulled, by the lust of our flesh, to sin.

    Does this conflict indicate a lack of genuine repentance? No, what it indicates is that a true change of heart has been obtained, but the weakness of the flesh remains. We may indeed capitulate to sin without it indicating incorrigibility, or a complete failure to repent.

    There is a profound difference between the Born Again Christian, who receives Christ's nature in his heart, and the "Christian" who receives the knowledge of Christ without fully adopting his nature into his heart. Such a "nominal Christian" may produce a lot of good from the knowledge of Christ, and it may indeed by genuine.

    However, the nominal Christian, who hasn't really allowed Christ to be embedded in his heart, will ultimately expose his "good deeds" as self-motivated, and not purely motivated from the nature of Christ within him. Independence from God will have been preserved by refusing to have Christ's nature embedded in his heart, and lots of works, independent, of Christ, will be performed. Good works will be performed, but the motive will never be the motivations of Christ himself, but only those of the rebellious man, who wants to both do good and maintain his own independence from Christ.

    This kind of man repeats his sin not due to the weakness of the flesh, but more, due to the unwillingness to install Christ's nature in his heart. As such, he can never act purely out of the nature of Christ, but only in imitation of him, by the knowledge he did receive in his mind.

  5. #5

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Interesting train of thought, in light of other debates I'm engaging in. It's similar to the Predestination argument. So please indulge me, because this is the only way I can presently respond to it.

    Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God. I believe Adam and Eve showed that Man can respond to satanic rebellion without completely rejecting God's word. He and she accepted a mixed word of both good and evil.

    What God wants, for our Salvation, is a kind of contrition that goes back to only wanting the good, to want to follow God's word, and to reject all rebellion. This is both repentance and a complete change of nature, a change from Adam's fallen nature to the nature of Christ, who was sinless and only wanted to do God's will.

    So how does this take place in a practical sense? We embrace Christ's nature in our heart, even while we still have the Adamic nature in our current physical beings. This means we can truly want to do only the righteousness of Christ, and to reject all sin, while at the same time being pulled, by the lust of our flesh, to sin.

    Does this conflict indicate a lack of genuine repentance? No, what it indicates is that a true change of heart has been obtained, but the weakness of the flesh remains. We may indeed capitulate to sin without it indicating incorrigibility, or a complete failure to repent.

    There is a profound difference between the Born Again Christian, who receives Christ's nature in his heart, and the "Christian" who receives the knowledge of Christ without fully adopting his nature into his heart. Such a "nominal Christian" may produce a lot of good from the knowledge of Christ, and it may indeed by genuine.

    However, the nominal Christian, who hasn't really allowed Christ to be embedded in his heart, will ultimately expose his "good deeds" as self-motivated, and not purely motivated from the nature of Christ within him. Independence from God will have been preserved by refusing to have Christ's nature embedded in his heart, and lots of works, independent, of Christ, will be performed. Good works will be performed, but the motive will never be the motivations of Christ himself, but only those of the rebellious man, who wants to both do good and maintain his own independence from Christ.

    This kind of man repeats his sin not due to the weakness of the flesh, but more, due to the unwillingness to install Christ's nature in his heart. As such, he can never act purely out of the nature of Christ, but only in imitation of him, by the knowledge he did receive in his mind.
    "Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God"


    I agree , the word of God. You first have to accept the gospel as the word of God however, is all I would add. The word of salvation.

    "believe Adam and Eve showed that Man can respond to satanic rebellion without completely rejecting God's word. He and she accepted a mixed word of both good and evil."

    to accept a word of Good and evil is a corrupt word a conflicted word , and the issue from the beginning and not of God , as was the serpents word , it's " subtle" as any good deception , but it's a lie dressed up in a false perception brother consider " God said " you will surely die " ....the enemy said " you will not surely die " .......you have to reject either one or the other . If you believe God you will live , you reject the truth and have only the lie to believe . It's the same for us now we have the way the truth and life , the only way to the father ....the other explainations of salvation and eternal life .....are false and will. Ot grant the promises Jesus Christ made . His word for his promises , and that's every promise Christians have. Gotta be the words of the savior for salvation.

    "What God wants, for our Salvation, is a kind of contrition that goes back to only wanting the good, to want to follow God's word, and to reject all rebellion. This is both repentance and a complete change of nature, a change from Adam's fallen nature to the nature of Christ, who was sinless and only wanted to do God's will."

    agree only would change that Jesus Christ did Gods will , because he is Gods will everything about him. He did only Gods will even though Gods will eventually placed him in suffering and death on the cross for you and I . He knew also Gods will to raise him up over death and glorify him for eternity ...


    "So how does this take place in a practical sense? We embrace Christ's nature in our heart, even while we still have the Adamic nature in our current physical beings. This means we can truly want to do only the righteousness of Christ, and to reject all sin, while at the same time being pulled, by the lust of our flesh, to sin.

    Does this conflict indicate a lack of genuine repentance? No, what it indicates is that a true change of heart has been obtained, but the weakness of the flesh remains. We may indeed capitulate to sin without it indicating incorrigibility, or a complete failure to repent...

    To know his nature , we have to embrace his word ....the gospel . It's how he imparts his righteousness to us ..we believe the words of God which tell us believe these thing and you will have eternal,life ....Jesus ministry is salvation . It's not practical to say " embrace tha nature of Christ " but the word brother , that is and has been from the very first how God speaks his will to,us , and how he works in us , leads and guides us , his word . It's the gospel when Jesus began to preach ...salvation began to shine forth ..practically we abide in his words we keep his doctrine and it will change the inner things .

    temptation and sin in Christ , is a very real thing anyone who thinks we can't be tempted or if we sin once were lost ....has no clue about the things Jesus preached. There's a way of dealing with our failings still now he taught us how to be forgiven after the cross , and living in him....his doctrine teaches us ...


    "There is a profound difference between the Born Again Christian, who receives Christ's nature in his heart, and the "Christian" who receives the knowledge of Christ without fully adopting his nature into his heart."


    you or I shouldn't be looking at other men , but our own selves we'll never make a jidgement on anyone else , its not for me to say " a Christian who just heard about Jesus and believes with thier heart....and a Christian who has persevered in repentance 50 years and is nearing thier races end .....that's always and forever between the believer , Jesus Christ our advocate , and God our Father in him. There's no other aspect to the equation , whatever Jesus says of judgement ....whatever Jesus says of repentance , whatever Jesus says will be. Judgement is only between God the father , Jesus Christ and the one who will believe his word.

    so on this section bro I'm going to avoid what I think of younger or even more struggling Christians . If I were to return now to the life I lived 20 years ago ....id be in some serious trouble ....but , 20 years ago all I really knew was Jesus died for my sins , he is the son of God the Christ , he's the lord God sent him to save me ....


    I'd read the bible a lot by then ....but I wasn't yet ready for too much ....God is good that way , he doesn't give us understanding until he has made us ready as we seek him in the gospel. Has to be according to the gospel only from Matthew to the ends of John ...and then we can also learn about the gospel from all the apostles who witnessed it to the world....but it has to be the Gospel written as he spoke it forth ...that is the simplicity of eternal life in truth believe what Jesus says , seek it out and believe it ....he will bring us into obedience as he wills , we just keep his words in us

  6. #6

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Hi Follower 1977.
    I think holding people accountable for the purpose of correction is a good thing. The Bible says,

    When a sentence is not executed at once against a crime, the human heart is encouraged to do evil. Even though a sinner might commit a hundred crimes and still live a long time, yet I know that it will go well with God-fearing people - for they stand in fear before him. But it will not go well with the wicked, nor will they prolong their days like a shadow, because they do not stand in fear before God. Ecc.8:11-13

    um yes I could not agree more , I would even say accountability as to this sort of thinking ....which this kind of thing awakens people to repentance IF we don't reject it , or explain it away when it's plain

    “ For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;
    **2 Corinthians‬ *5:9-11‬ *KJV


    see Jesus gets to be the one to make us accountable ...he's with us now in the spirit ...he's able to,shepherd us through the word of the gospel and faith ...

    God bless in all the things of our Lord Jesus Christ

  7. #7

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Interesting train of thought, in light of other debates I'm engaging in. It's similar to the Predestination argument. So please indulge me, because this is the only way I can presently respond to it.

    Salvation is all about a complete change in nature. This happens by the heart of man responding to the word of God. I believe Adam and Eve showed that Man can respond to satanic rebellion without completely rejecting God's word. He and she accepted a mixed word of both good and evil.

    What God wants, for our Salvation, is a kind of contrition that goes back to only wanting the good, to want to follow God's word, and to reject all rebellion. This is both repentance and a complete change of nature, a change from Adam's fallen nature to the nature of Christ, who was sinless and only wanted to do God's will.

    So how does this take place in a practical sense? We embrace Christ's nature in our heart, even while we still have the Adamic nature in our current physical beings. This means we can truly want to do only the righteousness of Christ, and to reject all sin, while at the same time being pulled, by the lust of our flesh, to sin.

    Does this conflict indicate a lack of genuine repentance? No, what it indicates is that a true change of heart has been obtained, but the weakness of the flesh remains. We may indeed capitulate to sin without it indicating incorrigibility, or a complete failure to repent.

    There is a profound difference between the Born Again Christian, who receives Christ's nature in his heart, and the "Christian" who receives the knowledge of Christ without fully adopting his nature into his heart. Such a "nominal Christian" may produce a lot of good from the knowledge of Christ, and it may indeed by genuine.

    However, the nominal Christian, who hasn't really allowed Christ to be embedded in his heart, will ultimately expose his "good deeds" as self-motivated, and not purely motivated from the nature of Christ within him. Independence from God will have been preserved by refusing to have Christ's nature embedded in his heart, and lots of works, independent, of Christ, will be performed. Good works will be performed, but the motive will never be the motivations of Christ himself, but only those of the rebellious man, who wants to both do good and maintain his own independence from Christ.

    This kind of man repeats his sin not due to the weakness of the flesh, but more, due to the unwillingness to install Christ's nature in his heart. As such, he can never act purely out of the nature of Christ, but only in imitation of him, by the knowledge he did receive in his mind.

    I like what you said there a lot bro about " God wants a sort of contrition " see this is what Paul is saying about Godly sorrow ...to be sorry for our sins is a godly thing it's what God wants from sinners. A humility , it's easy for a believer , to forget to judge themselves according to the gospel , and the old guy sort of wants to look at everyone else according to the gospe, we learn ...so we begin thinking ourselves perfected fruit ...but then when we are in the word of the gospel consistently ....the light shines in our hearts ....and shows us flaws or sinful things like lust in our hearts ...or greed in our hearts...grudge bearing in us ect...


    that is light for the soul , it's what Jesus means when he says " this is the condemnation , light has come into the world ...those who love darkness hate the light because thier deeds are evil.those who do evil will not come into the light , for fear thier deeds will be reproved" but those who doeth truth come into the light , that thier deeds may be manifest ....and they are wrought then in God "

    see the sorrow for our sin or "contrition" or even that our sins grieve us in our hearts " that is absolutely necessary for repetnance ....but see bro here's what I mean by the gospel...the gospel ..the gospel...

    that true contrition come through God sending his only begotten , who had done no wrong , to suffer for our sins to be cursed and hanged upon a tree ...the curse of the law upon sinners...but only he did nothing , he suffered ever slap and every insult , every flogging every time they spit on him....bro.....they spit on Jesus our lord , and he was only there suffering those things ...because our sins had already sealed our fate to,the grave forever...it's for our salvation that Jesus came and suffered . Can you,imagine having all these indignities done tomjesus Christ the lord of glory?

    see brother , in most kingdoms ...the subjects of the kingdom, the citizens will by law and loyalty protect thier King to the very last man ...even if he's made a mistake or done a wrong ...that's a kingdom .

    Jesus Christ the King of kings looked down from the heavens and saw that man was lost in darkness and the earth was without form and void ... A second time after the creation, flood, promise...law, ...in the latter prophets and he began to say " there is no man to save no one to redeem ...I will come o Israel . I will come o earth and all flesh shall see the glory of the Lord , his salvation is nigh his redemption has come near ...I will come ...I'm declaring new things ...I'm coming waits for the Christ , the lord whom you seek and the covenant promised....I'm coming...

    in our kingdom Jesus came and suffered and died to save us , our sins brother , my sins out my beloved savior on the cross ....and the sorrow I embrace....and it produces a will against sin , I love the lord Jesus as I'm sure you also do bro....sin caused his agony ....and his agony causes our forgiveness and remission....sin just needs to be taken for what's the bible says it is , and does , and did , and causes in lives ....in the new things there will be no sin.....and also no sorrow , no death, no disease, no children hurt and missing , no wars, no starvation, no funerals , no tears....unless they be those of inexpressible joy

    consider the new creation we are promised " no eye has seen no ear has heard , no mind can percieve the glories he hath prepared for us ....we cannot look and see it .....but faith can see it afar off

    “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.”
    **Hebrews‬ *11:13‬ *KJV‬‬


    but we according to,his promise look for a new heaven and a new earth wherin dwells righteousness and life that is truly life....

  8. #8

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    " and the lord God commanded the man , of every tree you may freely eat ....but of the tree of the fruit of,the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat , for,when you do you will surely die"


    so then what is going to,happen if one eats the fruit God just declared poison?


    .........and that answer is faith.

  9. #9

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    um yes I could not agree more , I would even say accountability as to this sort of thinking ....which this kind of thing awakens people to repentance IF we don't reject it , or explain it away when it's plain
    I'm sorry. I misunderstood your example of the neighbor who stole your stuff with you not holding him accountable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    “ For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the thb. _
    ings done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men;

    **2 Corinthians‬ *5:9-11‬ *KJV
    Yes. This is why
    it's an act of love to teach people we care about (such as the neighborhood thief), that actions have consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    see Jesus gets to be the one to make us accountable ...he's with us now in the spirit ...he's able to,shepherd us through the word of the gospel and faith ...
    By his Spirit, we should hold people accountable without a heart of vengence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    God bless in all the things of our Lord Jesus Christ
    Yes, in Jesus we remember we were thieves as we teach other thieves.

  10. #10

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    I'm sorry. I misunderstood your example of the neighbor who stole your stuff with you not holding him accountable.

    Yes. This is why
    it's an act of love to teach people we care about (such as the neighborhood thief), that actions have consequences.

    By his Spirit, we should hold people accountable without a heart of vengence.

    Yes, in Jesus we remember we were thieves as we teach other thieves.

    consider Rather than holding anyone to account ....consider how the Pharisees and scribes wanted to treat this condemned sinner guilty of a sin of death in the law ...

    “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
    **John‬ *8:3-5, 7, 9-12‬ *KJV‬‬

    so here's the law they were right " thou shalt not commit adultery, whoever commits adultery must be put to,death by the hands of the congregation , yes shall stone them with stones that they die "

    should then we consider forgiveness ....this woman was held to account by law....Jesus does not hold her to account , he forgives her , saves her life , which the law of Moses , condemns .....

    it's about forgiveness , and then a call to repentance . Not holding sinners to account because to do so means thier dead already but rather he has


    “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
    **Colossians‬ *2:13‬ *KJV‬‬



    do you see Jesus saved this woman , then instructed her repentance ? Where is she held to account for,her sin? Isn't she sort of like the neighbor who robbed the house , is then caught for certain facing the sentance ...then Jesus says " your forgiven , now go and change .......that's more of the example I was pointing to ...also , gotta be careful with " holding people to account in Christ .....that's his job and he will in his time.

    consider this

    “And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

    Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

    And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most.

    And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman?

    I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

    Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much:

    but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
    **Luke‬ *7:37-50‬ *KJV‬‬


    would you tell,him he needed to hold this great sinner to account ? Or would you learn the lesson in what he's teaching ?


    Brother often when we think we're all set and walking in righteousness .....we need to look at the source closely






    we begin at forgiveness . Again I'm more saying this about forgiveness . Jesus didn't hold sinners to account for thier sins , he came and died to be the propitiation for our sins.

  11. #11

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    A sinner being saved by grace and truth , apart from the law of Moses in scripture ....behold the savior in truth the salvation of sinners....

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
    full of grace and truth.

    And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
    **John‬ *1:1-2, 4, 9, 12, 14, 16-18‬ *KJV‬‬


    Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.

    And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:

    and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

    When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

    She said, No man, Lord.

    And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
    **John‬ *8:1-5, 7, 9-12‬ *KJV‬‬



    this is how salvation comes about....this , is grace and truth apart from the mosaic law. According to the law , you and I are in her position the law holds sinners to full account , when you sin , you don't get to say " I confess I repent I'll never commit adultery again....the law says clearly by commandment the sinner must surely be put to death by the hand of the congregation , that all may fear and know that I am God , purge the evil from among you...."

    Adultery , doing any work on a sabbath day 1 time, speaking the name of any other God even in passing , certain cases of false witness against another , a girl who is found to have had pre marital sex when she is married, doing something like reading a horoscope partaking of worship of the stars and moon , the astronomy deceptions, even if your fighting and don't mean to seriously injure the other guy , the law commands whatever you have done be done to you eye for an eye, you fight and accidentally poke out another's eye , the sentance is it's done to you ....so then was Jesus Christ preaching the law of Moses ? Or had he come to save sinners condemned because of the law of Moses ? Knowing first of all that all have sinned and fallen short of the high standard of holiness before God .

    many things men do like camping on a weekend building a fire on the sabbath ....it's a death sentance according to the law of commandment. " when you have sinned .... Ye shall surely die"

    consider this event in your mind and heart . You see first Gods grace , meaning his word beforehand held her to the sentance of death ....but his grace saves her life by what he says to the others prepared to stone her. Note closely what the lord your savior , Our Great and mighty God has spoken through Jesus Christ ......and consider ....he is. It teaching what Moses wrote ....note it's when the other religious " leaders" of the people look at their own self with jidgement concerning sin , and go away ....then Jesus is all alone with this sinner....he has shown to her this true love of,God that has saved her very life .

    she was already sentances by the written law of Moses , Unchangeable and breakable , now maybe we think we'll ...adultery is a sin of death ...I've maybe lied a few times in my life , and maybe I stole once when I was young , I maybe criticize others and even gossip.....but that ain't like adultery I'm not condemned by the law....well the issue is in the gospel we learn that if you have transgressed one law , one command ...you have broken Gods laW. If a liar tries condemning an adulterer....it is self condemnation because all sin is transgression of the law , it's like you are pointing to your own self , a liar and a thief are both lawbreakers needing atonement....or they will die.


    this poor woman what a fear she must have had , group of self righteous delusioned fellow sinners dragging her most likely half dressed before the lord of Glory tossing her before him " what do you have to say Jesus ...who goes around forgiving sinners all the time healing people ...here's a guilty adulteress ...the law says she must be stoned ....but what about you Jesus ? What do you say?


    Jesus replies ....look at yourself are you sinless and perfect ? Those who hear it are convicted because thier honest win , it hits them from the elders first who understand I've also sinned and broken this law of stone ....he's right , I need mercy too.


    when she's alone with Jesus after he gets rid of the condemners ....he saves her and then tells her effectively " repent of your sin and believe the gospel.....which he'd been preaching all along....


    salvation is something only Jesus can do , we need his word and faith because he works through his word and faith in us to bring repentance , rather than just condemning the sinners Gods will is through Christ they hear him

    remember the lord " I will have mercy ...for I have not come to call the " righteous" but rather sinners , to repentance.

  12. #12

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    “And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

    But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
    **Matthew‬ *9:11-13‬ *KJV‬‬



    “But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.”
    **Matthew‬ *12:6-8‬ *KJV‬‬


    “After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

    O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.”
    **Hosea‬ *6:2-4‬ *KJV‬‬


    “Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth:

    and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth. For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.”
    **Hosea‬ *6:5-6‬ *KJV‬‬


    sometimes " religion " blinds us to the spirit and intent of what Gods will is that he's speaking to us clearly , but then we're so focused on rules consider what he'd been saying through the prophets

    “Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God. Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge?

    Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high.

    Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord? Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

    Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh? Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the Lord shall be thy rearward.

    Then shalt thou call, and the Lord shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

    Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.”
    **Isaiah‬ *58:2-11, 14‬ *KJV‬‬


    It's the same in Christ but we're talking now about eternal things in Christ. Notice what Gid was wanting from them ? It's the same spirit in the gospel

    “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations...

    Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when ....And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.


    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when ..... Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
    **Matthew‬ *25:31-32, 34-46‬ *KJV‬‬

    Do you see how God is still saying " what I want from you is true active brotherly love , care for the needs of the less fortunate if you have plenty do it because of the spirit God is speaking forth into you through his words as you seek him in prayer always , and his word . It's why there's a bible in every area of the world and someone speaking about the things in the bible ....it's Gods word meant for us to acknowledge and accept and actually pursue knowledge from ....

    see the commandments ...they were mostly about treat your brother and sister ...or neighbor. If you lie ...your doing a wrong to them , not God . If you steal your stealing from someone. If you commit adultery , your committing it against another person. If you bear false witness ...it's against another person ...many many things are about treating one another .....the right way . It's not right to steal , kill , lie , cheat , ect...to really love one another and to keep the commandments ....goes hand in hand ...

    “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
    **1 John‬ *5:2-4‬ *KJV‬‬


    or Paul

    “Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

    For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.”
    **Romans‬ *13:8-11‬ *KJV‬‬


    But our love begins and ends here the law cannot bring this love of God

    Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

    But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
    **1 John‬ *3:16-19‬ *KJV‬‬


    only your lord and savior Jesus Christ can bring you home to the father trust in Jesus , praise his goodness and his mercy and truth .

  13. #13

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    consider Rather than holding anyone to account ....consider how the Pharisees and scribes wanted to treat this condemned sinner guilty of a sin of death in the law ...
    I've given great consideration to how the so called experts viewed the law. They didn't understand the purpose of it, which was to show that we are all in need of God's mercy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    “And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

    So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

    And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
    **John‬ *8:3-5, 7, 9-12‬ *KJV‬‬

    so here's the law they were right " thou shalt not commit adultery, whoever commits adultery must be put to,death by the hands of the congregation , yes shall stone them with stones that they die "

    should then we consider forgiveness ....this woman was held to account by law....Jesus does not hold her to account , he forgives her , saves her life , which the law of Moses , condemns .....
    Our Savior did not abrogate the condemnation of the law by forgiving the adulterer. From what Jesus taught in many instances, we may rightfully assume that when faced with death, that sinner was sorry for what she had done. Our Lord knowing her heart forgave her, but admonished her further about continuing in sin. A good example of this admonition is found in

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    it's about forgiveness , and then a call to repentance . Not holding sinners to account because to do so means thier dead already but rather he has
    No it isn't. It's about a call to repentance and then forgiveness,
    From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent Mt.4:17

    He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. Pro.28:13

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    “And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
    **Colossians‬ *2:13‬ *KJV‬‬
    We can assume they were repentant,

    And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Lk.24:47

    Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent Act.17:30

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    do you see Jesus saved this woman , then instructed her repentance ?
    I think she was fearing for her life. If I was in her shoes, I would not be flint faced about the sin I committed, so no, I don't believe Jesus forgave her before she was repentant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Where is she held to account for,her sin?
    Isn't she sort of like the neighbor who robbed the house , is then caught for certain facing the sentance ...then Jesus says " your forgiven , now go and change .......that's more of the example I was pointing to ...
    Jesus said,

    Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. Lk.17:3-4

    You didn't mention anything about the neighbors attitude when caught. He may have decided to rob other peoples homes from then on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    also , gotta be careful with " holding people to account in Christ .....that's his job and he will in his time.
    "In Christ", holding people accountable is for the purpose of teaching, not condemning. Like punishing a child for his welfare. I'm not speaking of judgement that is final.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    consider this

    “And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

    Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

    And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most.

    And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman?

    I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head.

    Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much:

    but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
    **Luke‬ *7:37-50‬ *KJV‬‬


    would you tell,him he needed to hold this great sinner to account ? Or would you learn the lesson in what he's teaching ?
    That woman humbled herself in a way few people would. She went to a home where she knew she would be looked down upon by the owner and probably all but One of his guests.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    Brother often when we think we're all set and walking in righteousness .....we need to look at the source closely
    This isn't about thinking we're all set. Walking in righteousness entails knowing that we're not better than anybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Follower1977 View Post
    we begin at forgiveness . Again I'm more saying this about forgiveness . Jesus didn't hold sinners to account for thier sins , he came and died to be the propitiation for our sins.
    That Jesus didn't condemn sinners doesn't mean condemnation doesn't rest on sinners (Jn.3:18). Believing in Jesus is believing the words he spoke. The propitation is for turning sinners to God.

  14. #14

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    I have to disagree with your view on the law and whether he forgave her first and then told her to sin no more ....I'm not sure how you would interpret that he told her not to sin first ....then she repented ...then he forgave her ....it's sort of clear really....

    Yes often people don't .....understand the law are you aware the law is written in the Books of Moses ? All the commandments to the children of Israel here's a sample of what I mean by , Gods own commandments through Moses hold sinners to account like I was saying ....the Pharisees bro were strict religious keepers of the law ...they had no mercy, they looked down on those they themselves labeled sinners ...they stood far away and scoffed when Jesus sat and ate and befriended the " sinners " and then they went and thanked God they were not like the sinners ......they were self righteous forgetting thier own sins until Jesus said " look at your own self , don't worry about your fellow sinners "

    here's the law

    this is the law...the sinner is condemned by Gods commandment.

    “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
    **Numbers‬ *15:32-36‬ *KJV‬‬


    “He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

    And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

    And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.”
    **Exodus‬ *21:12, 15-17, 23-26‬ *KJV‬‬

    remember this is the law of Moses the commandments given him by God .....

    look at this one wow huh? Gods commandment to his people for someone introducing false worship

    “And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *13:10-11‬ *KJV‬‬


    this one for a girl who has been found not a virgin at her betrothal

    Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *22:21‬ *KJV‬‬

    ......the Pharisees understood the law well it's why they rejected Jesus Christ .

    “Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

    But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which veil is done away in Christ.

    But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
    **2 Corinthians‬ *3:12-18‬ *KJV‬‬


    brother I'm not even sure we disagree honestly ....but you seriously think the woman repented first and then Jesus forgave her in that example from John? It seems to me like she's as good as dead under law , Jesus gives her grace , then tells her now that you have seen mercy , go and repent or " sin no more" another translation says " go and leave your life of sin"

    under the mosaic law , this is not a possibility , showing as everything does Jesus is born under the law for this purpose.

    “Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
    **Galatians‬ *4:3-6‬ *KJV‬‬


    but when he is anointed at his baptism , and begins preaching the gospel .....he's speaking the new and eternal covenant .,so see I'm thinking you are looking at the rp Ten Commandments thinking like the ruler did I keep those I'm in the kingdom.....that's not so. We are not accountable to Moses , were accountable to the word God sent from heaven , which Moses law said would superceed the law of Moses when the messiah came , Peter also confirms that Moses was speaking about Jesus Christ . We are accountable to things like the sermon on the mount .....if you ever meet a person who is fully obedient to the sermon on the mount ......I hope to meet him also .

    it's about pressing toward the goal set before us , beholding with faith Jesus Christ believing the gospel ....but brother I still ink your stuck on " Jesus did not die for the sins of the believer , were not forgiven by his sacrifice " and that is where the disconnect I think is ...

    Jesus is the sacrifice for all sins according to the first covenant no one will be punished who accepts Jesus for Moses laws ...here's the scripture

    “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”
    **Hebrews‬ *9:15‬ *KJV‬‬


    we who are on Christ , are looking to his doctrine for our accountability see how the law is the spirit of holding guilty the sinner and demanding death? Read the sermon on the mount , it's contrary spirit of mercy don't stone others, don't judge and condemn others , if someone strikes you , don't fight them back turn your other cheek , not an eye for and eye like the law ....


    the first testament is about holding sinners accountable , sin is death it's been so from Eden forward when it sprang forth in Man , though it was already in the world , it came into man in Eden . And brought death to mankind

    “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”
    **Romans‬ *5:12‬ *KJV‬‬


    all are dead under the law all have sinned all are dead , Jesus does this brother consider just this set of verses if nothing else consider it in prayer

    “For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.”
    **Romans‬ *5:6-11‬ *KJV‬‬

    To be forgiven in Christ we have the law of Christ .....Moses commanded sacrifices for forgiveness ...God desires mercy . Forgive and you will be forgiven ....be merciful and you will receive mercy ....



























    brother that is the nature of Moses law , it is not to show mercy to a sinner. Again the adulterer ...by the written law of God

  15. #15

    Re: Repentance and forgiveness ...a practical thought

    “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
    **Colossians‬ *2:12-13‬ *KJV‬‬


    The adulteress now has a reason to love jesus...to seek out what this messiah is saying to all who would listen ...and that will lead her to salvation . But unless Jesus , willingly , knowingly gave his life , four our sins , forgivene all our trespasses , we can never come into Gods presence....because we don't really know him...if we don't see that under law man was finished all was lost ...and then Jesus came with salvation ...see I can say " I only sin a little I lied once when I was 25...but then


    If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

    But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

    So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
    **James‬ *2:8-13‬ *KJV‬‬

    the law of Liberty is this

    “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

    Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.”
    **John‬ *8:31-32, 34-35‬ *KJV‬‬


    which is exactly what we'll be judged by his words

    “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
    **John‬ *12:48-50‬ *KJV‬‬


    it's about the things Jesus taught , not sin and death , spirit and freedom , redemption salvation , eternal life ....the core is here because God desires mercy


    “But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:”
    **Luke‬ *6:35-37‬ *KJV‬‬

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