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Thread: Taking a closer look

  1. #1

    Taking a closer look

    Hey everyone,


    So I been doing a project of my own with the bible by interpreting it myself and there are a few things that I would love to get some opinions on.
    At first I thought not much of it. I took what everyone is accepting as the acceptable explanation.
    But as I continued I found that indeed it was a bit puzzling after all.


    I think in the end the only widely acceptable explanation is that God, the LORD and the LORD God are perhaps one entity. (the most high God and other variations are also used at times)
    Many saying that they are simply different ways to say God one meaning God one meaning master or ruler one being the covenant name of God.


    But I myself am still on the fence a bit at this point.
    I think perhaps it is the right conclusion to know that there are some things about God that are elusive.


    But more to the point.
    While there are plenty of verses that strongly indicate they are all one entity.
    There are a few things within the bible which seams to point to some other kind of gathering.
    Let me give a few examples of how these different names are used at first...


    You see in the beginning "God" created the heavens and the earth.


    Later....


    And "the LORD God" formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed life into him.


    And in the process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought the fruit of the ground as a offering to "the LORD".






    And they went in with Noah into the ark, two and two of each creature where there is life.
    And they went in male and female as "God" commanded them, and "the LORD" shut him in.


    At this point and not simply from these examples it seemingly appears as if the LORD is used during the performing of physical actions such as shutting Noah in the ark or smelling things such as burnt offerings,


    From the first part of Genesis God performs these actions....


    God = Speaks, Creates, Looks, Blesses, Sanctifies, Rests, Curses, Commands, Remembers, men were said to have "walked with God"


    LORD God = Formed man and creatures from the ground, planted a garden, commands the man, walks in the garden, calls to the man, expels the man from the garden, smells the offerings of men, descends to witness the doings of man.


    Take another example Genesis 6:5


    5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.


    6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.


    7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.


    So the pattern is still the same. "God" see's things and "the Lord" takes physical action within the Earth.


    Now it was said that at first it was the Spirit of God that moved upon the face of the waters.
    Then it was just God performing the actions of creation and blessings.
    Then when we get to the garden of Eden it was the LORD God.
    Then when we get to Babel it was the LORD.
    Then when we get to Abraham it was the LORD who declared himself as the God of Abraham.
    Then it interchanges between the LORD and God and the God of Abraham.


    So while the book is using the terms interchangeably it is also seaming speaking of different entities.


    During the building of the tower of Babel "the LORD came down to see the city and the tower."
    Later the LORD visits Abram and declares that he is the Almighty God.
    He also exclaims that he will establish his covenant with Abraham and his seed to be a God unto them. (Genesis 17 : 7)


    Ok so God is God but this God is the God for Abraham's sake...


    Here is another example....
    And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake


    Here you see the Lord appears and declares that he is the God of Abraham and that for Abraham's sake he will help the man.


    Instead I am forced to explore other options at this point, if only to explore them.
    Essentially for the purpose of continuing my work I am considering all of these and any such other variations as meaning God.
    However the course of the work is seemingly revealing differences.


    If it were not for the strangest passages in Genesis this wouldn't be much of a question at all.


    Some of the passages are when God says that man has become as one of us. Using a plural term. (Genesis 3:22)
    And then later it so very briefly speaks of the Sons of God . (Genesis 6:2)
    Much later it is said that anyone that receives the Spirit of God is a Son of God.


    Through a bit of research, the Sons of God, meaning men that are led by the Spirit of God.


    Ok so if you made it this far then let me sum up the purpose of this writing and make a closure.
    I am interpreting the bible and so let me make a clear example using the passage in Genesis where it uses the term God and the Lord in the same passage...


    Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.


    Now let's say I want to reword this passage but retain the integrity of the core parts. Would it seam okay to you to do so like this...


    And they went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and God shut him in.


    OR do you think that there may be some elusive core part there that may be lost if the Lord was replaced in this instance with God ?

  2. #2
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    Re: Taking a closer look

    A good study to allow God to answer for Himself those questions of yours, is to either start a study of your own on; the names of God used in scripture.
    Or find a prepackaged study composed by another (that includes scriptural references for every opinion offered therein)

    If I offer my opinions to answer toward your earnest questions put forth here, I'd author more confusion than answers, even though I know the answers.

  3. #3

    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    A good study to allow God to answer for Himself those questions of yours, is to either start a study of your own on; the names of God used in scripture.
    Or find a prepackaged study composed by another (that includes scriptural references for every opinion offered therein)

    If I offer my opinions to answer toward your earnest questions put forth here, I'd author more confusion than answers, even though I know the answers.
    Hello and thanks for the response.

    Honestly I am not necessarily looking for the right answer. I am looking to receive many opinions on the matter. Thanks for the reply
    Whether it be a trinity view or it be some other view. Should the Lord be replaced with God ?

    Genesis 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.


    Now let's say I want to reword this passage but retain the integrity of the core parts. Would it seam okay to you to do so like this...


    And they went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and God shut him in.


    OR do you think that there may be some elusive core part there that may be lost if the Lord was replaced in this instance with God ?

  4. #4
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    Re: Taking a closer look

    For me personally, I have never had an issue with folks paraphrasing scripture to expound upon it, as long as the paraphrase scripture is accompanied with the scripture itself, or at least referenced by it's book,chapter and verse.

    As a matter of fact, I try very, very hard to paraphrase scripture with my life lived in front of my fellows, then if one of those fellows ask me about something that they notice in my life, ill point to and share scriptures that motivate that area of my life that they noticed and mention to me.

  5. #5

    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    For me personally, I have never had an issue with folks paraphrasing scripture to expound upon it, as long as the paraphrase scripture is accompanied with the scripture itself, or at least referenced by it's book,chapter and verse.

    As a matter of fact, I try very, very hard to paraphrase scripture with my life lived in front of my fellows, then if one of those fellows ask me about something that they notice in my life, ill point to and share scriptures that motivate that area of my life that they noticed and mention to me.
    That sounds like a good practice.

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    I think that "God is One" is emphasized enough times in Scripture to begin with the notion that all the names of God reflect a single Deity. So the names of God can be interchangeable. The reason why there are different forms of the name of God is due to language, in which we see "God" as a transcendent Being, whom we describe as such.

    And we also see Him as a personal Being, and so would give Him a name, to distinguish Him from false gods. His name is what we see transliterated as LORD. That is Yahweh, or the One who is.

    There is yet another sense in which God is described, indicating His relationship to Man. This is not just a mere transcendence, but more, a personal relationship. The term here is "Lord," as in "Master." God is not only transcendent, but He is also immanent, relating to us as Lord over our conduct, communicating to us with His divine authority.

    I should think these terms would be seen as such in your studies? But then again, you've done them--not me. I'm curious about the patterns expressed in using the various terms. But I would definitely stay away from anything that voids the unity of Deity.

  7. #7

    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I think that "God is One" is emphasized enough times in Scripture to begin with the notion that all the names of God reflect a single Deity. So the names of God can be interchangeable. The reason why there are different forms of the name of God is due to language, in which we see "God" as a transcendent Being, whom we describe as such.

    And we also see Him as a personal Being, and so would give Him a name, to distinguish Him from false gods. His name is what we see transliterated as LORD. That is Yahweh, or the One who is.

    There is yet another sense in which God is described, indicating His relationship to Man. This is not just a mere transcendence, but more, a personal relationship. The term here is "Lord," as in "Master." God is not only transcendent, but He is also immanent, relating to us as Lord over our conduct, communicating to us with His divine authority.

    I should think these terms would be seen as such in your studies? But then again, you've done them--not me. I'm curious about the patterns expressed in using the various terms. But I would definitely stay away from anything that voids the unity of Deity.
    Yes these terms are falling as such that you described in my studies.

    I mainly want to simplify and if such terms could be determined to be interchangeable with no deformation of the intent then they would bring a bit of clarity. Unifying the Lord and the LORD God with simply God however I am still yet unsure if doing so would disregard perhaps something important.
    It feels like there may be a difference especially when you look at some of the early passages where both terms were used one after the other.
    After Abraham it was fairly clear that we were to view the LORD as God or the God of Abraham.
    So in the instance of the passage from Noah.
    Where God commanded them, and the Lord shut him in.
    Would you paraphrase as, Where God commanded them, and God shut him in ?
    Or would it seam incorrect.

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggie View Post
    Yes these terms are falling as such that you described in my studies.

    I mainly want to simplify and if such terms could be determined to be interchangeable with no deformation of the intent then they would bring a bit of clarity. Unifying the Lord and the LORD God with simply God however I am still yet unsure if doing so would disregard perhaps something important.
    It feels like there may be a difference especially when you look at some of the early passages where both terms were used one after the other.
    After Abraham it was fairly clear that we were to view the LORD as God or the God of Abraham.
    So in the instance of the passage from Noah.
    Where God commanded them, and the Lord shut him in.
    Would you paraphrase as, Where God commanded them, and God shut him in ?
    Or would it seam incorrect.
    We may use the names of God differently than how it was used in the Bible. For example, I use "God" as His personal name, whereas in the Bible, Yahweh would be used. And I refer to "Lord" more often in prayer than "God," for the simple reason that "Lord" just sounds more "personal" to me.

    So how I feel about the interchangeable uses of the names for God is different than what the biblical authors intended. I don't believe you'll find different "gods" from one name to another. But you may find that the more personal activities of God utilized a more personal kind of name, as opposed to the more formal "God."

    Keep in mind that when we see Yahweh, or LORD, in Genesis, prior to the time of Moses, it may not have been the names of God as used in that time. Moses was writing back into earlier histories his own use of the name of God. If I'm wrong in this, I hope to be corrected!

  9. #9

    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    We may use the names of God differently than how it was used in the Bible. For example, I use "God" as His personal name, whereas in the Bible, Yahweh would be used. And I refer to "Lord" more often in prayer than "God," for the simple reason that "Lord" just sounds more "personal" to me.

    So how I feel about the interchangeable uses of the names for God is different than what the biblical authors intended. I don't believe you'll find different "gods" from one name to another. But you may find that the more personal activities of God utilized a more personal kind of name, as opposed to the more formal "God."

    Keep in mind that when we see Yahweh, or LORD, in Genesis, prior to the time of Moses, it may not have been the names of God as used in that time. Moses was writing back into earlier histories his own use of the name of God. If I'm wrong in this, I hope to be corrected!
    I am going to simplify it as much as possible and cut out all of the confusion.
    Having to keep in mind a word that was God's name later but may not be at that time is beside the point.
    Even God attested to it when Moses asked what was his name.
    God is not hiding the fact that God is mysterious.

    If you look at these different terms they do appear to be different extensions of God ....

    Let me show another example that I am now dealing with here.....

    The Lord of Hosts

    Back then there were records of Angels often, and the Lord of Hosts was a devouring fire which was seen by manifestation of elements like fire pillars, tornadoes and clouds which visited the Earth.

    The Lord of Hosts would often consume the people with fire because there was no room for folly when his presence was near.

    Entire armies were devoured by the fire.

    The Lord of Hosts appearing to manifest in order to protect and guide the people who were destined to record these prophetic events.

    Yet when the Hebrews often would sin and become like there enemies they also were consumed by the fire.

    So that eventually The Lord of Hosts hid his face from them because they were traumatized.

    So then that is God, or that is perhaps but a extension of God, just one part of God. Or even another creation of God which was established as the God of Abraham ?

  10. #10
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    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggie View Post
    I am going to simplify it as much as possible and cut out all of the confusion.
    I'm going to put it as simply as possible too:

    God's names, ALL of God's names do describe an attribute of Himself, His attributes are innumerable, hence His names are innumerable.
    Hence His name is: I AM.

    What ever name you or I choose (of His many names) that we use to describe or call upon Him, He will hear it, and or our fellows and even the devil and his demons will give right of way to it.
    No matter which of His names you or I choose to use to describe or call upon Him, even if we write or pronounce any of His innumerable names in 70 different languages of babel, He will still hear it, and or our fellows and even the devil and his demons will still give right of way to it.



    Be still and know that He is God, the One and Only: I AM.

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    One of God's Highest acts of Mercy toward men, is not allowing His personal name to be known by them, because men's tongues and "opinions" of that personal name would defile that name.

    So, it is only because of His abundant Mercy that we just aint gonna know that personal name of His until all of His Lamb's enemies are put under that Lamb's un-defiled feet.

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggie View Post
    I am going to simplify it as much as possible and cut out all of the confusion.
    Having to keep in mind a word that was God's name later but may not be at that time is beside the point.
    Even God attested to it when Moses asked what was his name.
    God is not hiding the fact that God is mysterious.

    If you look at these different terms they do appear to be different extensions of God ....

    Let me show another example that I am now dealing with here.....

    The Lord of Hosts

    Back then there were records of Angels often, and the Lord of Hosts was a devouring fire which was seen by manifestation of elements like fire pillars, tornadoes and clouds which visited the Earth.

    The Lord of Hosts would often consume the people with fire because there was no room for folly when his presence was near.

    Entire armies were devoured by the fire.

    The Lord of Hosts appearing to manifest in order to protect and guide the people who were destined to record these prophetic events.

    Yet when the Hebrews often would sin and become like there enemies they also were consumed by the fire.

    So that eventually The Lord of Hosts hid his face from them because they were traumatized.

    So then that is God, or that is perhaps but a extension of God, just one part of God. Or even another creation of God which was established as the God of Abraham ?
    You may be confused about it, but I'm not suffering any confusion at all. There is a difference between how I name God and how the Bible names God. I refer to God in a personal sense because I'm born again and know Him. I call Him God or Lord interchangeably. "Lord" is a bit more personal, and so I use it more often.

    By contrast, the Bible appears to use extensions of the name "Yahweh" to indicate different properties of deity, such as provider, healer, etc. But in referring to Him as a Being, separate from other gods, He is identified as "God," or Elohim. And in referring to Him personally men referred to him as "Lord," or Adonai.

    I think of "Lord of hosts" as a recognition of Yahweh's place of supremacy among the created beings in the universe, sometimes typified by the stars of heaven. Yes, it shows an attribute of Yahweh, who *is,* as opposed to gods are *are not.* God's name Yahweh means "he exists."

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    One of God's Highest acts of Mercy toward men, is not allowing His personal name to be known by them, because men's tongues and "opinions" of that personal name would defile that name.

    So, it is only because of His abundant Mercy that we just aint gonna know that personal name of His until all of His Lamb's enemies are put under that Lamb's un-defiled feet.
    I think that when we're not mature in Christ there is a danger of being reckless with the holy things of God. We need to be careful.

    In that sense I think Israel generally was careful about how they used God's name. But I think that is only because in the nation there was this mixture between the mature people of faith and others who were not so aligned with the character of God.

    Yahweh, in my understanding, simply means "He exists," or "I am." It's not a scary name, but certainly a title worthy of the proper respect attached to the Divine One. We can be personal with God, but we should always show the proper respect.

  14. #14

    Re: Taking a closer look

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    I'm going to put it as simply as possible too:

    God's names, ALL of God's names do describe an attribute of Himself, His attributes are innumerable, hence His names are innumerable.
    Hence His name is: I AM.

    What ever name you or I choose (of His many names) that we use to describe or call upon Him, He will hear it, and or our fellows and even the devil and his demons will give right of way to it.
    No matter which of His names you or I choose to use to describe or call upon Him, even if we write or pronounce any of His innumerable names in 70 different languages of babel, He will still hear it, and or our fellows and even the devil and his demons will still give right of way to it.



    Be still and know that He is God, the One and Only: I AM.
    Thank you for the response

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    Re: Taking a closer look

    If I may "chime" in on this topic. You said this: " I think in the end the only widely acceptable explanation is that God, the LORD and the LORD God are perhaps one entity." Or to put it another way there is only one "being" of God. However, the Bible makes it clear that there are three and only three persons identifed in the Bible who make up the one God.

    For instance, you quoted Genesis 17:7 but look at what Genesis 17:1,2 state, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless, vs2, And I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly." In these two verses you have the word "Lord" and the word "God" being used for the same being.

    Here is what Genesis 16:7 states, "Now the angel of the LOrd found her/Hagar by a sspring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur." Jumping down to vs10, "Moreover, the angel of the Lord said to her, "I will greatly multiply your descendants so that they shal be too many to count."

    Now look at what Hagar says at vs13, "Then she called the name of the Lord who spoke to her, "Thou art a God who sees: for she said, "Have I even remained alive here after seeing Him." So here's the question? Is the angel of the Lord who multiplied Hagar's seed the same "being" that multiplied Abram's seed?

    Some people say, (and rightfully so) "There are so many scriptures that only use Lord, God and many other titles referring to God so how do you deal with this? Where no distinction is made, it is obviously unnecessay to make a distinction. The person of the Trinity are persons in relation to each other, any one of the persons in relation to us is simply God. In that there is only One God. If God says to us His glory He will not give to another, that is because there is only One God.

    Also keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is a person in relation to the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is God in relation to us. If you are in a relationship with the Father/Holy Spirit, then yu must be in a relationship with ther all, for there is only One God and if you deny one, you deny them all.

    There is another very important issue that needs to be addressed. A lot of people when they see the word "God" in the Old Testament they automatically assume it must be God the Father. This is especially true of the various cults out there. The Old Testament people called God the Father (not every single time) because He was their creator. Isaiah 63:16 comes to mind. And as you know the phrase, "God the Father" is used extensively after the birth of Christ. Hope this helps.

    IN HIM,
    maverick

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