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Thread: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

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    Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Why The Experts Disagree


    I happened across a pcs. by Marty Fox some time back in which he presented his interpretation of Rev. 12. Marty I mean no disrespect toward you, for I know you are sincere in thinking you are aiding others in understanding Rev. 12. However, I believe your interpretation misses the mark, and here is why.


    All readers please consider the following:
    God has just one true interpretation for Apocalyptic Prophecy (Dan. & Rev.)


    The earth’s population is over 7 billion, made up of many cultures and
    diverse religions, of which Christians only make up 25%


    There are hundreds of interpretation which have been circulated since John wrote Rev. In 90 A.D.


    So how can one determine what one is the correct interpretation?


    A Brother In Christ
    Last edited by Sojourner; Sep 20th 2019 at 06:45 PM. Reason: External website link deleted

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Timm

    Why The Experts Disagree


    I happened across a pcs. by Marty Fox some time back in which he presented his interpretation of Rev. 12. Marty I mean no disrespect toward you, for I know you are sincere in thinking you are aiding others in understanding Rev. 12. However, I believe your interpretation misses the mark, and here is why.


    All readers please consider the following:
    God has just one true interpretation for Apocalyptic Prophecy (Dan. & Rev.)


    The earth’s population is over 7 billion, made up of many cultures and
    diverse religions, of which Christians only make up 25%


    There are hundreds of interpretation which have been circulated since John wrote Rev. In 90 A.D.


    So how can one determine what one is the correct interpretation?


    A Brother In Christ
    No offence taken thanks

    One knows if they have the correct interpretation or not by making sure that it doesn’t contradict the bible and history also helps reveals the true meaning of prophecy

    I also think that the message in the books of the bible are more important than the details as details can be symbolic and I also read each book of the bible from the point of view of people it was written to not from my point of view thousands of years later

    I use history and the other books of the bible for my interpretations and nobody gets it all right all of the time but we do learn more from studying the bible. This below is a rule of thumb that I go by

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

    You claimed that I missed the mark but you didn’t show were I missed the mark could you please elaborate?
    Last edited by Sojourner; Sep 20th 2019 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Glade you'r not offended. Actually, I did. It's all revealed in the link. It is my prayer that you will take the time to read it.

    A Brother In Christ

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Timm

    Why The Experts Disagree


    I happened across a pcs. by Marty Fox some time back in which he presented his interpretation of Rev. 12. Marty I mean no disrespect toward you, for I know you are sincere in thinking you are aiding others in understanding Rev. 12. However, I believe your interpretation misses the mark, and here is why.


    All readers please consider the following:
    God has just one true interpretation for Apocalyptic Prophecy (Dan. & Rev.)


    The earth’s population is over 7 billion, made up of many cultures and
    diverse religions, of which Christians only make up 25%


    There are hundreds of interpretation which have been circulated since John wrote Rev. In 90 A.D.


    So how can one determine what one is the correct interpretation?


    A Brother In Christ

    Larry Wilson's article was written 12 years ago. He states that we can only know the truth of the Prophetic Word in the end times. Was 2007 the end times?

    I read his article and; predictably; I disagree with it. It is America centered and makes assertions that ARE external from the Bible, something he says we should not do!
    What I know from Daniel 12:10 and other Prophesies, is that only a few will understand God's plans. Most will have their eyes opened and their ears unstopped; AFTER the last days events commence.
    The truth of God's plans is hidden from the wise and revealed to the simple. Matthew 11:25 The 'wise' - those who have been brainwashed at Bible colleges and Seminaries, etc. The 'simple' - those few who clear their minds of mans teachings and use the Bible to explain itself, along with a good helping of commonsense and a knowledge of history and science, esp: astronomy.
    Last edited by Sojourner; Sep 20th 2019 at 07:01 PM. Reason: External website deleted

  5. #5

    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Isn't "Larry Wilson" a Seventh Day Adventist? (his book may be among my hundreds of hard copies on this Subject--though I am *not* SDA, just to be clear!... so it's sounding somewhat familiar...)

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Timm View Post
    Glade you'r not offended. Actually, I did. It's all revealed in the link. It is my prayer that you will take the time to read it.

    A Brother In Christ
    As I mentioned when I replied to you in the other post called who is the beast I did check it out thanks

    But was there any particular pert in the revelation 12 post you were meaning?

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark View Post
    Isn't "Larry Wilson" a Seventh Day Adventist? (his book may be among my hundreds of hard copies on this Subject--though I am *not* SDA, just to be clear!... so it's sounding somewhat familiar...)
    Looked throught the linked website and though I did not see it stated specifically, the article on "Is Jesus the Archangel Michael" would strongly suggest that that he is SDA.
    Do not say, “Why were the old days better than these?” For it is not wise to ask such questions.
    Ecc 7:10

    John777 exists to me only in quoted form.



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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Marty, I want to respond to last post. But before I do I wanted to review it before I do, so I don't say something you never said. But since I'm new with this platform I can't seem to find it. Can you help me with that?

    I understand you to say, you did read the article? If so, I hope you understood how important valid rules of interpretation are to understanding Gods intended meaning of apocalyptic prophecy. Same is truth with math. It is these valid rules if applied correctly that override our personal biases. After all, the interpretation should be the same message for all of God's children in all the different religions, even those who have none. Agreed? What other way possible could there possibly be to get diverse people to agree, other than the facts prove the rules to be valid. I know in the short article he only demonstrated a prophecy in Rev. 12:7 thr.14:5, which you covered in your post. Put according to rule #1, each of the 18 prophecies found in Dan. & Rev. have a begging and ending point in time, and each prophectic event will happen in the the exact order given within that prophecy. Because God knows the beginning from the end and He laid these events out in the order they will be fulfilled. No expositor in the centuries pass has understood this, and the reason is God sealed this discovery up until the "time of the end" (Dan. 12:4&9) should arrive because only these people need to know the intended meaning since they will have to live at the time they are fulfilled, and God is making it know now so that they will not be deceived by the devil when he is released from the spirit realm (5th trumpet, Rev.9:1-11). Excuse me for rambling on, I get so excited over this story, and I've been into it since 1988. It never gets old.

    But (if) my memory serves me correctly, in the interpretation you shared you were moving forward and backward in time as you followed the events. This is not a valid rule, and those fulfilled prophecies of the past do not support it. Remember too that a valid rule has no exception, just as the rules of math.

    Marty, I know all of this my sound confusing at first, but should it make sense on the surface somewhat I want to encourage you to spend some more time in "do- diligence" and yes it is scary, I know I'm up the road ahead of you on this, but God will clearly reveal in great detail His plans as to how He will gather in a numberless multitude during the 1335 days of the tribulation if it is our hearts desire to know.

    I'm sending you this link so you can meet Mr.Wilson as he begins his series of studies on Daniel. Daniel's five prophecies lays the foundation on which the twelve prophecies of Rev. are anchored. They are each a half hour long and very educational. See what you think? https://youtu.be/EtoK00Pnn_Y Please send that post.

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Timm View Post
    Marty, I want to respond to last post. But before I do I wanted to review it before I do, so I don't say something you never said. But since I'm new with this platform I can't seem to find it. Can you help me with that?

    I understand you to say, you did read the article? If so, I hope you understood how important valid rules of interpretation are to understanding Gods intended meaning of apocalyptic prophecy. Same is truth with math. It is these valid rules if applied correctly that override our personal biases. After all, the interpretation should be the same message for all of God's children in all the different religions, even those who have none. Agreed? What other way possible could there possibly be to get diverse people to agree, other than the facts prove the rules to be valid. I know in the short article he only demonstrated a prophecy in Rev. 12:7 thr.14:5, which you covered in your post. Put according to rule #1, each of the 18 prophecies found in Dan. & Rev. have a begging and ending point in time, and each prophectic event will happen in the the exact order given within that prophecy. Because God knows the beginning from the end and He laid these events out in the order they will be fulfilled. No expositor in the centuries pass has understood this, and the reason is God sealed this discovery up until the "time of the end" (Dan. 12:4&9) should arrive because only these people need to know the intended meaning since they will have to live at the time they are fulfilled, and God is making it know now so that they will not be deceived by the devil when he is released from the spirit realm (5th trumpet, Rev.9:1-11). Excuse me for rambling on, I get so excited over this story, and I've been into it since 1988. It never gets old.

    But (if) my memory serves me correctly, in the interpretation you shared you were moving forward and backward in time as you followed the events. This is not a valid rule, and those fulfilled prophecies of the past do not support it. Remember too that a valid rule has no exception, just as the rules of math.

    Marty, I know all of this my sound confusing at first, but should it make sense on the surface somewhat I want to encourage you to spend some more time in "do- diligence" and yes it is scary, I know I'm up the road ahead of you on this, but God will clearly reveal in great detail His plans as to how He will gather in a numberless multitude during the 1335 days of the tribulation if it is our hearts desire to know.

    I'm sending you this link so you can meet Mr.Wilson as he begins his series of studies on Daniel. Daniel's five prophecies lays the foundation on which the twelve prophecies of Rev. are anchored. They are each a half hour long and very educational. See what you think? https://youtu.be/EtoK00Pnn_Y Please send that post.
    Thanks and I will get back to this in a but but here was my reply to you earlier

    Hi Dennis thanks for your reply qand welcome to the forum.

    I myself see most of revelation as symbolic and in the first century as you say Daniel was told to seal up scroll because the time was in the future but John was told to not seal up the scroll because the time was near

    I see the beast as a demon influencing Rome and its leaders mostly Nero

    You are right there are so many interpretations of revelation but I use the bible to interpret revelation and to help keep me grounded below is a rule that I use

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

    Thanks for the tip on the book I will look it up

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    TheDivineWatermark

    In response to your question. Larry Wilson was employed by the SDA church for 17 years. He terminated his employment because history reveals that religious organizations do not move off of their foundational beliefs in step with "Advancing Truth" And he was sure that God had revealed to Him what was sealed up in the book of Daniel, and by faith he set out on a mission and has joined himself with the Holy Spirit to established a world wide none-denominational ministry called "Wake-up America" It's single purpose is to share the teachings of Daniel and Revelation now that Daniel as been unsealed.

    I hope you took the time to read his article. Mind sharing your thoughts? Did you find it informative? Do you have a better perspective of the importance of "laws of interpretation? Are you aware of the "laws of interpretation" which support the interpretation you believe in? Do you understand why "valid laws of interpretation" would do away with personal bias, leading to God's intended meaning of the prophecies?

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Timm View Post
    Marty, I want to respond to last post. But before I do I wanted to review it before I do, so I don't say something you never said. But since I'm new with this platform I can't seem to find it. Can you help me with that?

    I understand you to say, you did read the article? If so, I hope you understood how important valid rules of interpretation are to understanding Gods intended meaning of apocalyptic prophecy. Same is truth with math. It is these valid rules if applied correctly that override our personal biases. After all, the interpretation should be the same message for all of God's children in all the different religions, even those who have none. Agreed? What other way possible could there possibly be to get diverse people to agree, other than the facts prove the rules to be valid. I know in the short article he only demonstrated a prophecy in Rev. 12:7 thr.14:5, which you covered in your post. Put according to rule #1, each of the 18 prophecies found in Dan. & Rev. have a begging and ending point in time, and each prophectic event will happen in the the exact order given within that prophecy. Because God knows the beginning from the end and He laid these events out in the order they will be fulfilled. No expositor in the centuries pass has understood this, and the reason is God sealed this discovery up until the "time of the end" (Dan. 12:4&9) should arrive because only these people need to know the intended meaning since they will have to live at the time they are fulfilled, and God is making it know now so that they will not be deceived by the devil when he is released from the spirit realm (5th trumpet, Rev.9:1-11). Excuse me for rambling on, I get so excited over this story, and I've been into it since 1988. It never gets old.

    But (if) my memory serves me correctly, in the interpretation you shared you were moving forward and backward in time as you followed the events. This is not a valid rule, and those fulfilled prophecies of the past do not support it. Remember too that a valid rule has no exception, just as the rules of math.

    Marty, I know all of this my sound confusing at first, but should it make sense on the surface somewhat I want to encourage you to spend some more time in "do- diligence" and yes it is scary, I know I'm up the road ahead of you on this, but God will clearly reveal in great detail His plans as to how He will gather in a numberless multitude during the 1335 days of the tribulation if it is our hearts desire to know.

    I'm sending you this link so you can meet Mr.Wilson as he begins his series of studies on Daniel. Daniel's five prophecies lays the foundation on which the twelve prophecies of Rev. are anchored. They are each a half hour long and very educational. See what you think? https://youtu.be/EtoK00Pnn_Y Please send that post.
    Hi Dennis I checked out the video that you sent me but I couldn't finish it because of his presentation. Within the first 15 minutes he contradicted the bible so many times


    Fist he added words to the scriptures in Daniel 12:9 he added the words "those that will live"


    Second he changed the words of the scriptures in the time lines in Daniel he changed them all to years and that is not what any of those three scriptures say


    Third he took the liberty of explaining why Jesus didn't tell the disciples the timing of His return for a reason that isn't true


    Fourth he claimed that Peter and John are wrong and that he is right which is shocking and heretical. The bible is Gods inspired words and Peter and John are not wrong it is peoples interpretation of what Peter and John meant that is wrong. When ever people change the words of the scriptures and claim that it is wrong it is a big red flag and a reason to reject that person.

    This was all within the first 15 minutes

    The only rules to reading the bible is

    To not interpret the bible in a way that contradicts any of the bible

    Read each book of the bible from the point of view of the people that each book was written too.

    Use events in past history to reveal the true meaning of some of the prophecies

    Thanks for your efforts but I plead with you to ponder what I said here and pray for God to guide you to the truth about this man

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Let's start by laying down the facts.

    There is ONE correct answer. So most are wrong!

    For the one to be correct he/she must have the gift of prophesy. This gift is to know all mysteries.

    And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge;

    So do we think that there are thousands on earth today with this gift? With so many different interpretation thus the answer is NO.

    There will be only one person with this gift for starters. And when this gift is given time on earth will be short.

    So how do you know if you are the one with this gift?

    Again you can't be someone who regurgitates widely known information as it does not fit into the above.

    Your prophetic view needs to be different than the crowd which is wrong. Thus your view will not be accepted by the crowd but mocked.

    I would also say that you must have major tribulation in one's life. Why? Well you are providing information detrimental to the kingdom of Satan thus he is out to destroy the one whom will come forth with this information.

    Thus you would have to experience divine intervention and protection from God to continue.


    So who then of the experts qualify?

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Nobody who classes themselves as an 'expert' can qualify as a Prophecy truth teller.
    This is because Jesus said that the so called 'wise people' would be made foolish. Matthew 11:25 And Daniel 12:10 says that only a few will understand.

    It is the Bible prophets who have written the truth of what God has planned for His people in these end times. But the mistake most make, is to view their prophesies with a pre-conceived idea of what they want God to do for them.

    The preterist, allegorizing or Spiritualizing ways of understanding the Prophetic Word, are all wrong, as we DO have a future and it will be for our good, not harm.
    God is playing out the drama of the ages and we just happen to be alive at the cusp of earth shaking events. We should all be aware and prepared for what is plainly told to us will happen, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus, as King of the Earth.

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Nobody who classes themselves as an 'expert' can qualify as a Prophecy truth teller.
    This is because Jesus said that the so called 'wise people' would be made foolish. Matthew 11:25 And Daniel 12:10 says that only a few will understand.

    It is the Bible prophets who have written the truth of what God has planned for His people in these end times. But the mistake most make, is to view their prophesies with a pre-conceived idea of what they want God to do for them.

    The preterist, allegorizing or Spiritualizing ways of understanding the Prophetic Word, are all wrong, as we DO have a future and it will be for our good, not harm.
    God is playing out the drama of the ages and we just happen to be alive at the cusp of earth shaking events. We should all be aware and prepared for what is plainly told to us will happen, leading up to the glorious Return of Jesus, as King of the Earth.
    True, one has to be careful regarding symbols if the text isn't 100 percent clear on those symbols.

    I tend to be literal if the symbolic interpretation isn't obvious. I also tend to be literal if there's a lot of prophetic detail, it becomes nonsensical to see for example the detail of Ezekiel 40-48 as symbols. Numerous locations and measurements are contained there, which are meaningless from a symbolic perspective. Yet many want to allegorise those chapters. I believe they describe the actual literal future of the planet.

    It also takes faith to believe that we are in a prophetically significant age, of literally biblical proportions. We lack faith if we explain all prophecy away as somehow irrelevant to us in the modern era.

    To interpret prophecy we need faith that amazing things can still occur, we need to take prophecy literally unless symbolism is obvious, and we need to correctly embrace historical fulfillment if the history has a good literal match.

    Another bit of advice is to keep things simple, if two prophecies have similar detail, and there is nothing contradictory between the two, they are most likely speaking of the same event. For example the great earthquake at the end of the age is mentioned in a few prophecies, it makes more sense to overlap these, than to see multiple great earthquakes. God didn't give prophecy to us to confuse us.

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    Re: Rules of Interpretation, "Why The Experts Disagree"

    My criteria is that if it is possible to be literally fulfilled, then it will be.

    Conflating things like earthquakes, can be a mistake, as they happen at just about every event prophesied. We must look at all the clues, for example: at the Sixth Seal the moon will shine blood red and at the Return of Jesus the moon will be darkened.
    Overlapping, in my view, just leads to confusion.

    Faith? We surely need that, but thinking that amazing things cannot happen during your lifetime, is a contradiction of history. Every generation see tremendous change, I remember seeing the 'rag and bone' man come past in his horse and cart!
    The tragedy is that we Christians, who do have the warnings given by God about what He has planned to correct the situation on earth, which is again like 'as in the days of Noah', then to not heed those warnings, to at least know about it is better than being totally in the dark.

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