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Thread: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

  1. #16

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    That's not the point with me. The point with me is God's word. God made the world to last forever. It was made subject to change, with the possibility of it being destroyed, and with the things on the earth perishing. But God's word indicates that God made it to last forever--it was destined to be re-created in a more eternal form.

    So the idea that the world may not have been had Man eaten of the Tree of Life is not only not there, but it is antithetical to what God has said about why He created the world. He created it to be the eternal home for Man. Your statement contradicts this, and is therefore false.
    My statement is in line with Psalm 81, so where does it say the world is eternal? I thought the Old Creation would be rolled up one day.

  2. #17

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    10 And,

    [n]Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth,
    And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
    11 They shall perish; but thou continuest:
    And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
    12 And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up,
    As a garment, and they shall be changed:
    But thou art the same,
    And thy years shall not fail.

  3. #18
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    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by znpaaneah View Post
    The Bible is very clear that God made this tree to grow and that he planted it in the midst of the garden of Eden. The Bible is also clear that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Also God is love and God is life. There are multiple verses throughout the Bible telling us that God intends good for us and not evil. That God’s ways are beyond our understanding. Based on the overwhelming evidence given in the Bible and in the life of Jesus I have concluded that God is wiser than me, that I may not understand his ways but they are good and intended for my salvation, and that includes His creation of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and His placing it in the garden. I am also convinced that giving man free will is very important and that this tree was a necessary component of that.
    Hi again znpaaneah, I agree with you about all of that .. cf Romans 8:28. I'm glad that you made the point earlier about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being "good" (in and of itself), because 1. it was something that I had clearly forgotten, and 2. it is important to know that it was not the tree itself and its fruit that was bad (or as someone said on a different forum, that the apple was poisonous), because what was actually "poisonous"/deadly to our first parents (and to us through them) was the choice that they made to disobey God. So again, thank you for bringing that point up

    Quote Originally Posted by znpaaneah View Post
    16*And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17*but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

    I am persuaded by this verse and many more that death is a temporary condition, just as time is a temporary construct and one day God will declare that "time is no more". Had man chosen to simply obey God's commands that we would have transitioned from the created beings to this future eternal world that is promised much quicker.
    A temporary condition

    Thanks!

    --Deuteronomy
    Matthew 5
    16 Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


    Matthew 7
    12 However you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.


    1 Corinthians 13
    1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

    1 Peter 3
    15 Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence.


  4. #19

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuteronomy Skaggs View Post
    A temporary condition

    Thanks!

    --Deuteronomy
    What is the resurrection of the dead? If the dead are raised then certainly death is a temporary condition. It will not last for eternity, but only for this age.

  5. #20

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Yes I have to emphatically echo that God IS NOT evil. Also, we should take time to rightly divide the Word. God created evil does not mean He created THE evil of the world. It simply means He created all men, whether they choose to be GOOD or they choose to be EVIL. He has given us a free will. Since God is love and continually loves us He desires to be LOVED BACK. We can only love God back by having a free will and CHOOSING to love Him. Free will comes from having choice. Although not all men will choose to love Him, I do.

  6. #21

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenkins View Post
    Here is self disclosure from God YHWH in which we can have full faith. It came through the Great Prophet Isaiah.

    "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

    I am sure that up there in God's abode there is no darkness. And He has lovingly placed darkness here on Earth for us. And, lovingly preordained the activities of Satan to force Evil upon helpless Mankind by casting Satan and his minions down to Earth, as into a Garbage Dump. Rather than casting Satan etal. far into outer space.

    Oh wait. The Earth is flat with a Domed Firmament. So, it was not possible for God to cast Satan etal. to any place other than Earth. Pity we live here, too. Collateral damage.

    I love God with all my heart, mind, soul, and strength. Not for what He does, but for who He is. Oh wait. We actually are to love God for what He does. He gave Jesus, He gave Scripture, He gave Kazarians today to usurp and impersonate Jews in Israel with their Godless Zionism, and He gave Godless and Corrupt America to support Modern Israel. He gave Catholicism to literally destroy The Waldensians and Cathars. And, He gave the Church today the Wisdom to say, "Without His gift of Evil specified in Isaiah 45:7 we cannot desperately need nor appreciate God's Salvation and Security in Christ."
    Poor Jenkins. .

  7. #22
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    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by znpaaneah View Post
    My statement is in line with Psalm 81, so where does it say the world is eternal? I thought the Old Creation would be rolled up one day.
    Psa 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded forever.
    Eccl 1.4 A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever.


    You're right that the Bible speaks of the earth "passing away." Since we can't have 2 contradictory statements in the Bible we have to resolve them. My belief is that the "passing" of the earth is like the passing of an administration, or like the passing of a dynasty.

    The earth passes away in the sense of ending a constantly changing culture, a climate in which spiritual forces in heaven constantly pressure mankind to be self-destructive and to in fact destroy our own environment.

    The old form of the earth as an unstable environment for Man will pass away. The new earth will be the old earth remodeled so that Man can live stably forevermore.

  8. #23

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    Psa 78.69 He built his sanctuary like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded forever.
    Eccl 1.4 A generation goes, and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever.


    You're right that the Bible speaks of the earth "passing away." Since we can't have 2 contradictory statements in the Bible we have to resolve them. My belief is that the "passing" of the earth is like the passing of an administration, or like the passing of a dynasty.

    The earth passes away in the sense of ending a constantly changing culture, a climate in which spiritual forces in heaven constantly pressure mankind to be self-destructive and to in fact destroy our own environment.

    The old form of the earth as an unstable environment for Man will pass away. The new earth will be the old earth remodeled so that Man can live stably forevermore.
    Hey 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

    He built the sanctuary on earth like the one in heaven. His sanctuary has been founded forever. The sanctuary that He built has been modeled on the eternal one.

    Ex 15:17 You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance— the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established.


    The place He made for his sanctuary -- the tabernacle. Jesus tabernacled among us.

    The way I interpret it is:

    These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

  9. #24
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    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by znpaaneah View Post
    Hey 8:5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

    He built the sanctuary on earth like the one in heaven. His sanctuary has been founded forever. The sanctuary that He built has been modeled on the eternal one.

    Ex 15:17 You will bring them in and plant them on the mountain of your inheritance— the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling, the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established.


    The place He made for his sanctuary -- the tabernacle. Jesus tabernacled among us.

    The way I interpret it is:

    These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
    I certainly agree that the temple worship of the OT was patterned after the heavenly Christ. He is the substance--the OT "shadows"were transient forms alluding to the eternal reality.

  10. #25

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I certainly agree that the temple worship of the OT was patterned after the heavenly Christ. He is the substance--the OT "shadows"were transient forms alluding to the eternal reality.
    1Cor 7:21 For this world in its present form is passing away.

    Clearly the World in its present form is not founded forever.

  11. #26

    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Man was given dominion over the earth , man was given free will , and man was warned that the fruit would bring death.

    Satan recognized mans authority over the creation , infiltrated him with the forbidden knowledge , and by chapter six , we don't have to argue about whether Gods creation is going the way he had intended , when he created it and gave man dominion he said " everything is very good " man then partakers of conflicting good and evil knowledges , God then says man has cursed the earth ...by chapter six , God regrets even making mankind upon the earth , says plainly " they have filled the earth with violence , and corrupted my ways upon the earth , therefore I will destroy man with the earth ...all flesh is not corrupt .....


    no one should ever think Gods will was for man to become sinners bring corruption and evil into the earth , filling it because mankind has dominion , it's filled and shaped by mans deeds and will. Gods will is found only in the gospel , the world is full of mans will following sin. Man disbelieving the commandment of God , and believing the deceiver caused the evil that comes from the lords word . The curses he warns men of , come from his words when men transgress them ...both good and evil come from Gods word , determined by whether we believe and heed or disregard and reject...

    one way brings life , the other way brings death it's an eternal principle

  12. #27
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    Re: Isaiah 45:7 Knowing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by znpaaneah View Post
    1Cor 7:21 For this world in its present form is passing away.

    Clearly the World in its present form is not founded forever.
    We can easily agree on that. Thanks!

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