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Thread: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

  1. #61
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by RockSolid View Post
    There is no command to build it and there are no instructions on how to build it. It is so massive that it wouldn’t fit on the Temple Mount, not even close.

    “The Lord said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place where I will rest my feet. I will live here forever among the people of Israel. They and their kings will not defile my holy name any longer by their adulterous worship of other gods or by honoring the relics of their kings who have died.”
    **Ezekiel‬ *43:7‬ *NLT‬‬

    The Lord isn’t going to live forever in a temple built on the Earth.
    I didn't say that temple will last forever.

    Yet God promises that after entering the Ezekiel temple, that place will be his throne forever, that is where he will live forever. This may not suit some people's doctrine, yet is a biblical truth. God will be there on Mount Zion forever after entering Ezekiel's temple:


    The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The people of Israel will never again defile my holy name

    You may prefer a less literal temple, and prefer to allegorise biblical prophecies, nevertheless a literal view cannot be faulted on any level.

  2. #62

    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Exactly, so why then did the translators say "new earth" when it means "new land". The foundation of the land/ground last forever so there will never be a new planet, just new ground.

    People don't seem to be interested in the fact that they did not have a word for planet earth in the Bible, they understood the universe like this :

    SKY (clouds, stars, sun, moon, blue sky)
    GROUND (soil, countries, continents, land)
    OCEAN
    UNDERWORLD

    There was no word in the Bible for planet earth, the planet will always exist because the foundation of the ground lasts forever. At the second coming there will be new land/ground, and 1000 years later there will be new land again

    Precisely as the Bible states in Ezekiel 43, God will dwell in that place, Mount Zion forever, starting from the day he enters that Ezekiel temple among earthly mortals.
    Essentially correct. The ancients did not consider the earth a planet as planets were traveling stars in the sky. Earth basically meant dirt, the stuff we stand on. They believed there were four elements; earth, water, air and fire. The world meant the known world around them.

    We differ on other interpretations.

  3. #63

    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I didn't say that temple will last forever.

    Yet God promises that after entering the Ezekiel temple, that place will be his throne forever, that is where he will live forever. This may not suit some people's doctrine, yet is a biblical truth. God will be there on Mount Zion forever after entering Ezekiel's temple:


    The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The people of Israel will never again defile my holy name

    You may prefer a less literal temple, and prefer to allegorise biblical prophecies, nevertheless a literal view cannot be faulted on any level.
    And all things on this world perish. So anything that lasts forever is not of this world.

  4. #64
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    The silence is deafening. But you can't write about things if your no longer there. Are these missing pieces evidence of an ancient rapture?
    The church shows smooth continuity of believers with no interruption. For example Ignatius of Antioch lived during apostolic times and into the second century. The lives of many other church fathers continued on, overlapping previous well known figures in the church.

    Instead of deafening silence, I see smooth continuity of the early church.

  5. #65
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    And all things on this world perish. So anything that lasts forever is not of this world.
    I agree, none of the man made things of the world last forever. But the things of God, creation, does last forever.
    The temple will not last forever, but biblically Mount Zion does last forever, and so do the foundations of the earth last forever.

    Psalm125:1 Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion, which cannot be shaken but endures forever.

    Micah 4:7 The Lord will rule over them in Mount Zion
    from that day and forever.

  6. #66
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I didn't say that temple will last forever.

    Yet God promises that after entering the Ezekiel temple, that place will be his throne forever, that is where he will live forever. This may not suit some people's doctrine, yet is a biblical truth. God will be there on Mount Zion forever after entering Ezekiel's temple:


    The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple. While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: ôSon of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The people of Israel will never again defile my holy name

    You may prefer a less literal temple, and prefer to allegorise biblical prophecies, nevertheless a literal view cannot be faulted on any level.
    The problem DD, with expecting a literal Ezekiel 40-48 temple that will last forever (and not some alternative allegorical understanding of the 40-48 temple); is that if you choose to take this eternal literal interpretation; you also have to be consistent and apply the eternal literal interpretation to all of the characteristics of the Ezekiel 40-48 passages as well.

    This leaves one with the eternal physical circumcision as a requirement for the people forever,
    This leaves one with the eternal animal sacrifices to sanctify the sins of the people forever,
    This leaves one with eternal sinners existing in the Ezekiel temple forever,
    etc....

    Some of the characteristics provided in describing Ezekiel 40-48's temple, when held to a literal wooden expectation, generate a conflict with the final accomplishment of what Christ accomplished eternally at the cross for all human beings.

    One has to make a decision at this point; what was the intent and expectation of the Ezekiel 40-48 verses in light of what actually eternally occurred at Calvary.

    A conflict will result.
    Either Calvary becomes in conflict with a literal expectation of an eternal Ezekiel 40-48 temple; or
    A literal expectation of an eternal Ezekeil 40-48 temple was not the true intent of Ezekiel's writings.

  7. #67
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The problem DD, with expecting a literal Ezekiel 40-48 temple that will last forever (and not some alternative allegorical understanding of the 40-48 temple); is that if you choose to take this eternal literal interpretation; you also have to be consistent and apply the eternal literal interpretation to all of the characteristics of the Ezekiel 40-48 passages as well.

    This leaves one with the eternal physical circumcision as a requirement for the people forever,
    This leaves one with the eternal animal sacrifices to sanctify the sins of the people forever,
    This leaves one with eternal sinners existing in the Ezekiel temple forever,
    etc....

    Some of the characteristics provided in describing Ezekiel 40-48's temple, when held to a literal wooden expectation, generate a conflict with the final accomplishment of what Christ accomplished eternally at the cross for all human beings.

    One has to make a decision at this point; what was the intent and expectation of the Ezekiel 40-48 verses in light of what actually eternally occurred at Calvary.

    A conflict will result.
    Either Calvary becomes in conflict with a literal expectation of an eternal Ezekiel 40-48 temple; or
    A literal expectation of an eternal Ezekeil 40-48 temple was not the true intent of Ezekiel's writings.
    Well said Mr. Taylor when a interpretation of a prophecy contradicts scripture then it is not the proper interpretation let the scriptures interpret scripture .

    The whole of scripture is greater than the sum of its individual passages. You can not comprehend the bible as a whole without comprehending its individual passages and you cannot comprehend its individual passages without comprehending the bible as a whole. The individual passages can never be interpreted in a way as to conflict the whole of scripture

  8. #68
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    At the second coming the church is resurrected, we are citizens of the New Jerusalem. We never need further sacrifice because we trusted the sacrifice of Jesus. Forever cleansed.

    Of those left behind, those mortal nations are judged and some survive (Israel), and some are destroyed (Edom). Israel is chief among the surviving nations and their temple is sanctified, and ritual cleansing occurs to that nation of mortals.


    The 12 apostles rule over the 12 tribes (Matt 19:28), and the martyrs (Rev 20) and the church (eg Rev 2, 1Cor 6:1-4) will rule over the nations.

    This explains the contrast between grace and trust in Jesus in this age, and the introduction of cleansing rituals to mortal nations in the next age.
    What about the house of Israel in those last few chapters in Ezekiel, the ones Ezekiel was addressing at the time? What becomes of them ultimately? They are all obviously all long dead and gone. If they rise in the first resurrection that makes them saved saints, thus they would put on immortality at that time. If they rise after the thousand years, that basically indicates they all get cast into the LOF, plus it indicates none of them can ever fulfill any of these prophecies in those last chapters in Ezekiel. What is the point in Ezekiel even addressing the house of Israel in his day and time if none of these prophecies will ever involve them?

  9. #69
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The problem DD, with expecting a literal Ezekiel 40-48 temple that will last forever (and not some alternative allegorical understanding of the 40-48 temple); is that if you choose to take this eternal literal interpretation; you also have to be consistent and apply the eternal literal interpretation to all of the characteristics of the Ezekiel 40-48 passages as well.

    This leaves one with the eternal physical circumcision as a requirement for the people forever,
    This leaves one with the eternal animal sacrifices to sanctify the sins of the people forever,
    This leaves one with eternal sinners existing in the Ezekiel temple forever,
    etc....

    Some of the characteristics provided in describing Ezekiel 40-48's temple, when held to a literal wooden expectation, generate a conflict with the final accomplishment of what Christ accomplished eternally at the cross for all human beings.

    One has to make a decision at this point; what was the intent and expectation of the Ezekiel 40-48 verses in light of what actually eternally occurred at Calvary.

    A conflict will result.
    Either Calvary becomes in conflict with a literal expectation of an eternal Ezekiel 40-48 temple; or
    A literal expectation of an eternal Ezekeil 40-48 temple was not the true intent of Ezekiel's writings.
    If you look at my previous posts, I'm not claiming the temple lasts forever. As per Rev 21 there is no temple after the millennium.

    The temple only lasts for 1000 years, then everyone not written in the book is cast into the lake of fire.

    Currently Mount Zion is a place of remembrance, yet there has been no special anointing there since the curtain split at the crucifixion. We are the temple since.

    But in Ezekiel 43 God clearly promises that his presence shall never leave Mt Zion from the day he enters that Ezekiel temple and forever after that.

    I am not claiming the temple and rituals and mortal humans last forever. That's only for 1000 years until judgement day.

    I am claiming God's presence on Mt Zion lasts forever.

  10. #70
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The problem DD, with expecting a literal Ezekiel 40-48 temple that will last forever (and not some alternative allegorical understanding of the 40-48 temple); is that if you choose to take this eternal literal interpretation; you also have to be consistent and apply the eternal literal interpretation to all of the characteristics of the Ezekiel 40-48 passages as well.

    This leaves one with the eternal physical circumcision as a requirement for the people forever,
    This leaves one with the eternal animal sacrifices to sanctify the sins of the people forever,
    This leaves one with eternal sinners existing in the Ezekiel temple forever,
    etc....

    Some of the characteristics provided in describing Ezekiel 40-48's temple, when held to a literal wooden expectation, generate a conflict with the final accomplishment of what Christ accomplished eternally at the cross for all human beings.

    One has to make a decision at this point; what was the intent and expectation of the Ezekiel 40-48 verses in light of what actually eternally occurred at Calvary.

    A conflict will result.
    Either Calvary becomes in conflict with a literal expectation of an eternal Ezekiel 40-48 temple; or
    A literal expectation of an eternal Ezekeil 40-48 temple was not the true intent of Ezekiel's writings.

    I fully agree with your point about being consistent. It is not being consistent if taking some of those parts to literally be meaning forever, without also taking all of those other parts as literally meaning forever as well.

  11. #71
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    The problem DD, with expecting a literal Ezekiel 40-48 temple that will last forever (and not some alternative allegorical understanding of the 40-48 temple); is that if you choose to take this eternal literal interpretation; you also have to be consistent and apply the eternal literal interpretation to all of the characteristics of the Ezekiel 40-48 passages as well.

    This leaves one with the eternal physical circumcision as a requirement for the people forever,
    This leaves one with the eternal animal sacrifices to sanctify the sins of the people forever,
    This leaves one with eternal sinners existing in the Ezekiel temple forever,
    etc....

    Some of the characteristics provided in describing Ezekiel 40-48's temple, when held to a literal wooden expectation, generate a conflict with the final accomplishment of what Christ accomplished eternally at the cross for all human beings.

    One has to make a decision at this point; what was the intent and expectation of the Ezekiel 40-48 verses in light of what actually eternally occurred at Calvary.

    A conflict will result.
    Either Calvary becomes in conflict with a literal expectation of an eternal Ezekiel 40-48 temple; or
    A literal expectation of an eternal Ezekeil 40-48 temple was not the true intent of Ezekiel's writings.
    Can we entertain that 40-48 describes a blue print for an everlasting temple on which will be copied by hands whereby the heathen/AC will occupy.

    However there still does exist the original in the heavens with the same measurements made without hands which will remain forever.

    There is a reason why God purposely gave the measurements of the temple in great detail for the purpose of it being copied to send a strong delusion.

    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. ...

  12. #72
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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I fully agree with your point about being consistent. It is not being consistent if taking some of those parts to literally be meaning forever, without also taking all of those other parts as literally meaning forever as well.
    Yes definitely consistency is key. Can you name what aspects of Ezekiel 40 - 48 are described to last forever?

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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    What about the house of Israel in those last few chapters in Ezekiel, the ones Ezekiel was addressing at the time? What becomes of them ultimately? They are all obviously all long dead and gone. If they rise in the first resurrection that makes them saved saints, thus they would put on immortality at that time. If they rise after the thousand years, that basically indicates they all get cast into the LOF, plus it indicates none of them can ever fulfill any of these prophecies in those last chapters in Ezekiel. What is the point in Ezekiel even addressing the house of Israel in his day and time if none of these prophecies will ever involve them?
    Those mortal Jews who live in Israel, if their names are not in the book, will be cast into the lake of fire.

    If there names are there, I assume they will have an inheritance.

    That second resurrection is often labeled the resurrection of the unrighteous, but does any verse claim that they will all be cast into the lake? This is a concept in looking into at the moment, the hint that there could be names in the book at that stage.

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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Yes definitely consistency is key. Can you name what aspects of Ezekiel 40 - 48 are described to last forever?
    Ezekiel 43:7 And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.

    Before we get to this verse what has been in view? Has it not been this temple in question?

    The text in verse 7 says this...the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet. What place is He referring to if not this temple in question? The text goes on to say, in regards to the place He will do these things...where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever. But can He dwell forever in a place that is not even there forever? Didn't you indicate in one of these posts that the temple won't remain forever?

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    Re: Ezekiel's Temple Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Pergola View Post
    You are of course right. The theme is repeated constantly and any attempt to alter the meaning seems to be based purely on the assumption the scriptures were not fulfilled as promised, and therefore must be yet to be fulfilled. The contradiction between what scripture said and the lack of the expected outcome must then be rationalized by altering the meaning of scripture to allow a different outcome. This instead of examining the original assumption itself.

    I have often wondered why the scriptures abruptly end. We are not told what happened to Peter, or Paul or anybody else except for James. Acts ends with Paul in house arrest in Rome. Peter, we don't even know where he was but last read of him still in Jerusalem. These missing pieces were filled in with myth and legend in the third century, but are not in scripture.

    And why, since Jesus spoke specifically about the destruction of the temple on several occasions, is that very destruction not mentioned in scripture after it actually happened? It is a real fulfillment, and yet nothing.

    If John of Patmos wrote Revelation after the destruction of the temple, as some believe, why did he not mention it?

    The silence is deafening. But you can't write about things if your no longer there. Are these missing pieces evidence of an ancient rapture?
    No secrete rapture but the reasons I believe is that the end of Acts was the same timing of Luke writing the book as all that was needed in the scriptures was recorded. I also believe that John wrote revelation before 70AD which is why the historic recording of Jerusalem's destruction isn't mentioned in scripture but I do believe that Jerusalem was Babylon the great

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