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Thread: 2 Chronicles 21:14

  1. #16

    Re: 2 Chronicles 21:14

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    The days to come refer to when Israel (ten northern Tribes) and Judah (two southern Tribes) will be UNITED. This has not happened yet.
    In Hebrews, Apostle Paul teaches us plainly regarding the passage in Jeremiah 31. He quotes it almost exactly the way it was written. Paul relates this to the new grace covenant of our Lord and not a time in the future to come when Israel and Judah will be united. Therefore yes, this has already happened.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33 was fulfilled in the death, burial and resurrections of Christ our Lord.

    Hebrews 8:
    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

  2. #17
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    Re: 2 Chronicles 21:14

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    In Hebrews, Apostle Paul teaches us plainly regarding the passage in Jeremiah 31. He quotes it almost exactly the way it was written. Paul relates this to the new grace covenant of our Lord and not a time in the future to come when Israel and Judah will be united. Therefore yes, this has already happened.

    Jeremiah 31:31-33 was fulfilled in the death, burial and resurrections of Christ our Lord.

    Hebrews 8:
    6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
    Well, maybe you can give other scriptures because neither Jeremiah 31 nor Hebrews 8 say that the New Covenant is in force. In actual fact, Hebrews 8, which was written in about 67 AD, says;
    1. "The days come" (future tense) in verse 8
    2. The First Covenant of Law "decayeth and waxeth old" (present continuous tense) in verse 13
    3. The First Covenant of Law "is ready to vanish away", which means that it hasn't yet.

    Added to this, the CURSES of the First Covenant of Law still beset Israel. Those things which God promised if Israel was disobedient, happened in 70 AD and are still happening today.

    Added to this, the New Covenant is also made with the "House of Israel" - the ten northern Tribes. Where are they? Where is Jeroboam, or Ahab?

    Added to this, the New Covenant is made with Israel (Jer.31:33). Israel is EVERY SINGLE PERSON who proceeded from Jacob's loins. Where are those four generations that died in Egypt? And where are those millions who died from Moses to Nebuchadnezzar. And where are those who died in 70 AD and subsequently, including those of the Holocaust? These are Israelites. Daniel 12:2 says they will be resurrected. Where are they? Jeremiah 30:19 says that David will rule again after being raised from the dead. Where is he? Well ... the answer is that in Acts Chapter 2, some 50 days after Jesus rose, David was still dead and in Hades. And when will David's HOUSE be raised up? Only when God is finished gathering the church (Act.15:14-16 - "AFTER THIS").

    You see my brother, our teachers have been too busy with other things to study the matter to its logical end. Ezekiel 37 presents TWO GRAND SOLUTIONS to God's Covenant of Law. (1) EVERY Israelite will be resurrected, and (2) EVERY Israelite will be bound together in UNITY - IN THEIR LAND. And when does scripture say that Israel are GATHERED from every place - ONLY AFTER JESUS COMES (Matt.24:31). Only Israel was scattered to the "four winds" (Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9).

    And it is only then that the New Covenant will come into force.

    But now I have a challenge. If we, the Church, are under a New Contract, what are God's duties, and what are ours (with scriptures please)? You know, like Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 were for Israel of yore.

  3. #18

    Re: 2 Chronicles 21:14

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Well, maybe you can give other scriptures because neither Jeremiah 31 nor Hebrews 8 say that the New Covenant is in force. In actual fact, Hebrews 8, which was written in about 67 AD, says;
    1. "The days come" (future tense) in verse 8
    2. The First Covenant of Law "decayeth and waxeth old" (present continuous tense) in verse 13
    3. The First Covenant of Law "is ready to vanish away", which means that it hasn't yet.

    Added to this, the CURSES of the First Covenant of Law still beset Israel. Those things which God promised if Israel was disobedient, happened in 70 AD and are still happening today.

    Added to this, the New Covenant is also made with the "House of Israel" - the ten northern Tribes. Where are they? Where is Jeroboam, or Ahab?

    Added to this, the New Covenant is made with Israel (Jer.31:33). Israel is EVERY SINGLE PERSON who proceeded from Jacob's loins. Where are those four generations that died in Egypt? And where are those millions who died from Moses to Nebuchadnezzar. And where are those who died in 70 AD and subsequently, including those of the Holocaust? These are Israelites. Daniel 12:2 says they will be resurrected. Where are they? Jeremiah 30:19 says that David will rule again after being raised from the dead. Where is he? Well ... the answer is that in Acts Chapter 2, some 50 days after Jesus rose, David was still dead and in Hades. And when will David's HOUSE be raised up? Only when God is finished gathering the church (Act.15:14-16 - "AFTER THIS").

    You see my brother, our teachers have been too busy with other things to study the matter to its logical end. Ezekiel 37 presents TWO GRAND SOLUTIONS to God's Covenant of Law. (1) EVERY Israelite will be resurrected, and (2) EVERY Israelite will be bound together in UNITY - IN THEIR LAND. And when does scripture say that Israel are GATHERED from every place - ONLY AFTER JESUS COMES (Matt.24:31). Only Israel was scattered to the "four winds" (Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9).

    And it is only then that the New Covenant will come into force.

    But now I have a challenge. If we, the Church, are under a New Contract, what are God's duties, and what are ours (with scriptures please)? You know, like Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28 were for Israel of yore.
    I see where you're coming from.

    I agree, both covenants are all about the House of Israel. Paul made contrast between the two convents and he also made contrast between the mediators or testators of each covenant. He illustrated how Moses was the testator of the old covenant and it was only after Moses death before it was of full force. He then made illustration of the new covenant. This was the covenant or testament of Jesus Christ. And yes, Paul made contrast that this new covenant did come of full force after the death of the testator, Jesus Christ. Jesus spent his natural life establishing the new covenant and upon his death was it sealed. Therefore at that time, being in full force. And this is what Paul reiterated.

    So when I say, both covenants were all about the House of Israel, we know the old was exclusive to the House of Israel. The new covenant was also. When Jesus came, his ministry was never outside the jurisdiction of Israel. It was his commandment to the apostles to 1st go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel to preach the gospel. The last was one to then go into all the world.

    But what about the gentiles? To be an heir to the new covenant, then we must be a son of Abraham. To become a son, we become an heir to God. To become and heir to God, we become a joint heir with Jesus. Then we are grafted into the root of Israel by adoption. This is what the covenant to Abraham was all about. Within thy seed, all the nations of the earth will be blessed, if they keep his commandments and the oath of circumcision.

    So there are only one people of God, and this is in Christ Jesus. We are all of the same body both the Jew and gentile.

    Not to be confused with the Jews that accepted Christ as Messiah and those who did not. Clearly, these are two groups of people. Both being Gods people. But God has hardened their heart because of unbelief. But he has not cast them away. There will be a day that they will be given an opportunity to be grafted back into the root of the Olive tree of God. But this does not mean their will again be an all new covenant. The one now is already in full force. There will never be a testator who will ever supersede Jesus. The new covanant was in force from the time Jesus Christ was crucified. It will still be in force when those Jews will be grafted back into the original root.

    But the conditions of the new contract is no different than the original made with Abraham. Keep my commandments and the oath of circumcision. And I will be your God and ye shall be my people. The requirement is, whosoever should believe that Jesus is the son of God, shall have everlasting life.

    This is no different than the faith of Abraham. He believed that God was able to raise his own son, even though he was slain. So his faith was counted as righteousness. We obeyed the commandment of circumcision. We obey the same when we are circumcised of the heart and have his law written within our hearts.

    So the covenant is only one covenant being the "everlasting covenant" made with Abraham. Where as, there are two testaments. But remember, the covenant of God was made at a time which pre-dates both of the testaments (the one of Moses and the one of Christ).

  4. #19
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    Re: 2 Chronicles 21:14

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I see where you're coming from.

    I agree, both covenants are all about the House of Israel. Paul made contrast between the two convents and he also made contrast between the mediators or testators of each covenant. He illustrated how Moses was the testator of the old covenant and it was only after Moses death before it was of full force. He then made illustration of the new covenant. This was the covenant or testament of Jesus Christ. And yes, Paul made contrast that this new covenant did come of full force after the death of the testator, Jesus Christ. Jesus spent his natural life establishing the new covenant and upon his death was it sealed. Therefore at that time, being in full force. And this is what Paul reiterated.

    So when I say, both covenants were all about the House of Israel, we know the old was exclusive to the House of Israel. The new covenant was also. When Jesus came, his ministry was never outside the jurisdiction of Israel. It was his commandment to the apostles to 1st go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel to preach the gospel. The last was one to then go into all the world.

    But what about the gentiles? To be an heir to the new covenant, then we must be a son of Abraham. To become a son, we become an heir to God. To become and heir to God, we become a joint heir with Jesus. Then we are grafted into the root of Israel by adoption. This is what the covenant to Abraham was all about. Within thy seed, all the nations of the earth will be blessed, if they keep his commandments and the oath of circumcision.

    So there are only one people of God, and this is in Christ Jesus. We are all of the same body both the Jew and gentile.

    Not to be confused with the Jews that accepted Christ as Messiah and those who did not. Clearly, these are two groups of people. Both being Gods people. But God has hardened their heart because of unbelief. But he has not cast them away. There will be a day that they will be given an opportunity to be grafted back into the root of the Olive tree of God. But this does not mean their will again be an all new covenant. The one now is already in full force. There will never be a testator who will ever supersede Jesus. The new covanant was in force from the time Jesus Christ was crucified. It will still be in force when those Jews will be grafted back into the original root.

    But the conditions of the new contract is no different than the original made with Abraham. Keep my commandments and the oath of circumcision. And I will be your God and ye shall be my people. The requirement is, whosoever should believe that Jesus is the son of God, shall have everlasting life.

    This is no different than the faith of Abraham. He believed that God was able to raise his own son, even though he was slain. So his faith was counted as righteousness. We obeyed the commandment of circumcision. We obey the same when we are circumcised of the heart and have his law written within our hearts.

    So the covenant is only one covenant being the "everlasting covenant" made with Abraham. Where as, there are two testaments. But remember, the covenant of God was made at a time which pre-dates both of the testaments (the one of Moses and the one of Christ).
    Let's go through the Covenants made with men.
    1. The Covenant of the Rainbow - made with ALL FLESH (man and beast). At this time there was no Israel and no Church. God's part was never to destroy the earth with water again and man's part was to enforce the death penalty for murder.
    2. The Covenant of PROMISE - made with Abraham and his seed. At this time there was no Israel and and no Church. God's part was to give man the Land of Canaan, and man part was to be circumcised. I will return to this one anon
    3. The Covenant of LAW - made with the seed of Jacob ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. God's part was to protect and prosper Israel in their Land, and man's part was to keep about 630 LAWS given by Moses on Tables of Stone
    4. The Covenant of LAW contained the mechanisms of the Covenant of the Passover, the Covenant of the Sabbath and the Covenant of the Priesthood. God's part was to prolong Israel's days in the Land and man's part was to keep these Laws
    5. The Davidic Covenant - made ONLY with David and his seed. It is unconditional
    6. The New Covenant of Law - made with Israel because the first Covenant of Law had a weakness. God's part was to prolong Israel's stay in their Land forever, and man's part was to keep the 630 LAWS written in their hearts

    Returning to the Covenant of Promise (#2), to Abraham was promised THREE SEEDS. (1) A Seed (singular) - Jesus Christ (Gal.3:16). (2) Seed as the sand of the sea-shore - Israel. (3) Seed as the stars of heaven - the Church. Initially, Abraham is promised the first two and the Promise was the Land of Canaan with set borders. The part an Israelite has to fulfill for CANAAN is to be circumcised. But then Abraham, FOUR TIMES, rejects earthly profit at the hand of men (just like Jesus did with Satan). (1) He let's Lot choose the choicest Land, (2) he refuses the spoils of the slaughter of kings, (3) he refuses to accept his burial field at the hand of men and pays for it, and (4) he was prepared to sacrifice his ONLY son who did not yet have seed. So God ENLARGES the PROMISE to the WHOLE EARTH (Rom.4:13). Now, we can say much more about this Covenant, BUT IT IS NOT THE COVENANT WE DISCUSS HERE. The New Covenant replaces the First Covenant of LAW (#3).

    The Covenant of Law was to guarantee that Israel KEPT POSSESSION OF CANAAN. Among many others, Deuteronomy 4:23-27 reads;

    23 "Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
    24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
    25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:
    26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
    27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you."


    "Graven images" have NOTHING to do with any of the other Covenants. It is a part of the Covenant of LAW at Sinai. This Covenant of LAW is made SOLELY and EXCLUSIVELY with the 12 Tribes of Israel (Ex.34:27; Deut.29:1, etc.). The Church never receives this Covenant and any member of the Church who practices the LAW is cursed. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" (Galatians 5:4), a most terrifying thing for a Christian.

    So when God REPLACES the First Covenant of LAW of Sinai with the New Covenant of LAW, it is again ONLY WITH ISRAEL! The Church never had it in the first place, and the Church receives dire warnings, especially in Galatians and Hebrews, for turning back to this Law. THE COVENANT OF LAW BELONGS ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY TO ISRAEL FOR EXTENDING THEIR DAYS IN CANAAN.

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