Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 243

Thread: The Preterist Gap

  1. #61

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Walls View Post
    Added to this, all the prophecies that have been fulfilled up to now, have been fulfilled just as the grammar said. I think we can be confident that the remaining ones will happen exactly as the grammar indicates.
    This seems like a very broad blanket statement. I don't know how it's possible to know that every prophecy that has been fulfilled has been in correspondence with perfect grammar—unless you have a source that has studied and documented it. If so, I'd be very interested to know about it.

    It seems to me the obsession with perfect grammar in the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon. For example, modern translations that insist on paraphrasing everything that doesn't exactly make perfect sense in English.

    There are many examples of incorrect Greek grammar in the New Testament. If we limit ourselves to only what makes sense grammatically we may miss important clues.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Clanton Alabama
    Posts
    1,096

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.


    However, in so doing Preterists are being hypocritical when condemning Futurists for doing exactly the same thing by inserting a 2000 year gap. The only difference is length – but a gap nonetheless.


    The proper explanation is simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. Can someone explain why they believe the 70th week ends in AD 70? I suspect it is to do with verse 26 of Dan. 9. But there is a better way of interpreting that verse.
    The facts are evident. God gave three separate prophecies for a reason. One for the building of the Wall.........one that runs until the time the Messiah {Jesus was killed} and one in Israel's last 7 years on earth whilst Satan rules the earth. During that last 7 years Israel HAS TO REPENT !! The Prophecy stipulates it. And that hasn't happened.

    Where these people who go off track get sidetracked is they think with men's thinking, instead of God's mind. God tells us in Ezekiel 37 that Israel is as DEAD MEN'S BONES unto Him for nigh 2000 years until the very end times. So there was no Israel, thus there is no Gap. They are DEAD to God until He revives them, which He has set the course of so doing by reviving them as a secular nation with some Judaism Jews, but God has not called them unto repentance quite yet, that happens via the Two-witnesses about 75 days before the Anti-Christ becomes THE BEAST by Conquering Israel. {this is what Daniel 12 shows us via the 1260, 1290 and 1335}.

    So just because people don't understand the supposed "Gap" means very little to God. God sees Israel as a linear continuum until Jesus dies....then God refuses to recognize Israel's existence and this was all Prophesied by Ezekiel in the Valley of Dry Bones Prophecy in Ezekiel 37. God then brings Israel back unto their home land, and then later Breathes life back into them again. This last period is when Israel repents, just before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, thus Israel {Woman} Flees Judea, just like Jesus warned them to do in Matthew 24:15-17.

    God sees what He sees. The Church Age exists as we speak. After the Rapture/Departure of the Church, Israel will then be dealt with. God doesn't pay attention to what everyone else thinks or don't think, He has His own understandings, we just have to get into that realm of thinking, therein lies the crux of the problem.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    10,001
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberseeker View Post
    I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.
    I believe the basis is they follow the teaching of the ECFs in particular Eusebius.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    6,161

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by pdun459 View Post
    This seems like a very broad blanket statement. I don't know how it's possible to know that every prophecy that has been fulfilled has been in correspondence with perfect grammar—unless you have a source that has studied and documented it. If so, I'd be very interested to know about it.

    It seems to me the obsession with perfect grammar in the Bible is a relatively new phenomenon. For example, modern translations that insist on paraphrasing everything that doesn't exactly make perfect sense in English.

    There are many examples of incorrect Greek grammar in the New Testament. If we limit ourselves to only what makes sense grammatically we may miss important clues.
    OK brother, I hear you. But just in closing why do you say ....

    Quote Originally Posted by pdun459 View Post
    If we limit ourselves to only what makes sense grammatically we have missed important clues
    ?

    Which clues have we missed?

    OK. I'm not here to waste your time or mine. I just wanted to show you that if I changed one word in the grammar of that sentence I attributed to you a totally different meaning.

    Go well bro.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,638

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by divad
    Don't you have the same problem if the 70 weeks have already been fulfilled? That would mean there have been 2000 years since that time, and look where we are now, where Israel is now. So using your arguments above, why should it be like this for going on 2000 years if the 70 weeks have already been entirely fulfilled?
    I don’t have the problem at all, because I believe that in the midst of the final 70th week, when Jesus said, “It is finished”, and was cut off as the final perfect sacrifice, — all of these items were fulfilled.


    Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    That is the only view that understands the 70 weeks naturally, gapless, and in the spirit of the accomplishments that the coming of, and cutting off of, Messiah the prince, foretold.


  6. #66
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Coastal Mountains
    Posts
    8,605

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by David Taylor View Post
    Regardless of how you do or don’t take the 3.5 years related to the 70 weeks, the bigger issue to me is the inconsistency of how Premillennielism doesn’t apply the attributes of 9:24 within the 70 ‘literal’ weeks either.

    Even if the Premill Israel 70th week gap theory is taken at face value, at the end of the 70th week, at Armageddon and Christ’s return, Premill still has another 1000 years on top of Israel’s already completed 70 weeks, that the items of 9:24 (that belong to the 70th week), are still not fulfilled.

    Premill ends up pushing the final fulfillment of the items of 9:24 out to the GWT judgment, when sin is finally ended for Israel.
    V24 is fulfilled at the second coming.
    Jerusalem itself is especially purified at the beginning of the millennium, not only that, Ezekiel 43 clearly refers to the anointing of that most Holy Place of Mount Zion, forevermore.

    So it is at the second coming that the city is made pure, and the most holy place is anointed with God's presence.

    Zechariah 13 is clear that there is no more prophecy from that moment on. So V24 is fulfilled at the second coming, not 1000 years later.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,972

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post

    A gap between the 69th and 70th week is logical.
    What is logical about Jesus making atonement for iniquity and being cut off at the end of the 69th week?

    70 weeks are decreed for the atonement of iniquity by the Anointed one.
    This Anointed one clearly arrives after the 7 and 62 weeks.


    25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.


    If you believe that Jesus obtained eternal redemption for us on the cross, then you must also believe that he achieved this in the 70th week.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    What is logical about Jesus making atonement for iniquity and being cut off at the end of the 69th week?

    70 weeks are decreed for the atonement of iniquity by the Anointed one.
    This Anointed one clearly arrives after the 7 and 62 weeks.


    25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.


    If you believe that Jesus obtained eternal redemption for us on the cross, then you must also believe that he achieved this in the 70th week.


    My point was, if there is going to be a gap in the 70 weeks, a gap between the 69th week and 70th week would be logical, as opposed to a gap in the middle of the 70th week, which would not be logical. Why might the latter not be logical? Because of this for one...And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. In order to do that, this particular week can't have any gaps in it, especially 2000 year gaps. If Jesus is meant here, that would mean He confimed the covenant with many for the first half of the week, meaning while He was still physically present in the 1st century prior to His death. Then 2000 years later He finishes confirming the covenant with many for the remainder of the week, IOW during the last half of the week. If He can do something like that, what about during the gap? Why not confirm the covenant with many during the 2000 year gap as well?

    It therefore stands to reason, a gap in the middle of the week is illogical. There are only 2 other possibilities then. Either there are no gaps in the 70 weeks. Or there is a gap in the 70 weeks, that being between the 69th and 70th week. We can rule the former out since this would mean if Jesus is meant, this part... and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate....has to be fulfilled within 3.5 years of His death. I know of no one that might conclude that. But it would have to mean that if there are no gaps in the 70 weeks. Clearly, the part I just submitted, that is fulfilled during the 70th week in the last half of it.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Obviously there has to be a beginning and an ending of the 70th week. We already know what happens in the middle...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate

    even until the consummation...how can this not be the end of the 70th week?

    What would be the beginning of the 70th week then? Perhaps the following?

    Daniel 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
    Daniel 11:23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

    The following we know happens in the midst of the week according to Dan 9:27.

    Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

    With that leading to this...IOW things he does during the last half of the 70th week.

    Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

    And this part...and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done....meaning until the consummation(Dan 9:27)


    Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


    This meaning his confrontation with Christ and His armies per Rev 19. The text indicates...yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. And that's exactly what we see in Rev 19. Even though the beast had it's own armies, they were of no benefit to the beast once Christ appears, thus none shall help him.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,972

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post

    There are only 2 other possibilities then. Either there are no gaps in the 70 weeks. Or there is a gap in the 70 weeks, that being between the 69th and 70th week.
    I am a no gapper.
    I have shown you why a gap between the 69th and 70th is illogical. Why didn't you address it ?

    The Holy Spirit came and confirmed the ministry of Jesus in the first half of the week for the remainder of the week.
    Then it became not about just Daniels people Israel , but for every people to find Atonement and the gift of the Holy Spirit before the end comes. We are left with one flock and one Shephard who will dwell with him forever.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    I am a no gapper.
    I have shown you why a gap between the 69th and 70th is illogical. Why didn't you address it ?

    The Holy Spirit came and confirmed the ministry of Jesus in the first half of the week for the remainder of the week.
    Then it became not about just Daniels people Israel , but for every people to find Atonement and the gift of the Holy Spirit before the end comes. We are left with one flock and one Shephard who will dwell with him forever.
    I did address it by showing how 70 weeks with no gaps is illogical, thus I debunked your interpretation. Dan 9:27, every single word in it, involves the 70th week. Nothing in that verse is involving anything outside of the 70th week. If there are no gaps in the 70 weeks, and that if Christ is meant in verse 27, the following has to be fulfilled within 3.5 years of Christ's death...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation( the end of the 70th week), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. I bet even you don't think that part was fulfilled within 3.5 years of Christ's death, thus contradicting you concluding there are no gaps in the 70 weeks.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Let's start here...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate. Shall make what desolate? How can it not be the sacrifice and the oblation? What else can it be in that verse if not that? How does it make sense to be told in the text he shall make it desolate, then not even tell us in the text what it is that he shall make desolate?

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    ADELAIDE / South Australia
    Posts
    3,972

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    I did address it by showing how 70 weeks with no gaps is illogical, thus I debunked your interpretation.

    You didn't address my concerns regarding the atonement for sin.
    You have Jesus being cut off after 69 weeks correct??

    Do you believe Jesus had made atonement for sin when he was cut off???

    That's illogical because 70 weeks are decreed and Messiah doesn't arrive until after the 69th.

    Dan 9:27, every single word in it, involves the 70th week. Nothing in that verse is involving anything outside of the 70th week.
    No it doesn't. Atonement for sin in the 70th week was achieved 40 years before the city and the sanctuary were destroyed.
    And those castles made of sand....fall into the sea......eventually

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    You didn't address my concerns regarding the atonement for sin.
    You have Jesus being cut off after 69 weeks correct??

    Do you believe Jesus had made atonement for sin when he was cut off???

    That's illogical because 70 weeks are decreed and Messiah doesn't arrive until after the 69th.



    No it doesn't. Atonement for sin in the 70th week was achieved 40 years before the city and the sanctuary were destroyed.


    But my interpretation trumps yours, regardless. Until you accept that all of verse 27 is meaning what takes place during the 70th week, you have no valid argument that could possibly trump that in the meantime. In order for there to be no gaps in the 70 weeks, the following has to be fulfilled within 3.5 years of Christ's death, if Christ is supposed to be meant in that verse...and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Can you prove that happened within 3.5 years of Christ's death? Of course you can't. No one can because these things never happened within 3.5 years of Christ's death. And if you then claim that part fits a later time, you have just admitted to a gap, but this one being in an illogical place, that being in the middle of the week.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Outside of the box. Where else?
    Posts
    18,194

    Re: The Preterist Gap

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    You didn't address my concerns regarding the atonement for sin.
    You have Jesus being cut off after 69 weeks correct??
    I take it to mean He is cutoff after 69 weeks have concluded, IOW at the end of the 69 weeks. Something such as this....after he has served 10 days in jail he shall be released. This analogy shows it means at the conclusion of something.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Please Help Preterist fallacies? or not?
    By Aijalon in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: Dec 31st 2015, 11:48 PM
  2. New here Pentecostal, Unitarian, Preterist
    By AdamPastor in forum Introductions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Jul 11th 2013, 12:36 AM
  3. Why I Am Not A Preterist
    By Daniel Gracely in forum End Times Chat
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: Jun 19th 2012, 12:25 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •