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Thread: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

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    The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    It is truly amazing that most if not all have interpreted this prophecy incorrectly. Some see it all past while others correctly understanding the prophecy does deal with the second coming see it a combination past and future. The truth is that all the prophecy is a future event. The fatal error is misunderstanding the term "cut off". This sets the reader on the wrong course off the bat wherein many other errors follow to attempt to understand and makes sense of the prophecy.

    Mistake #1 - misunderstanding the term "cut off". The fatal error.

    Fatal because it sets the reader in the wrong era concerning the prophecy. Everyone immediately associates Messiah being "cut off" as his death upon the cross, however as we will see this is an incorrect interpretation. First the term "cut off" is used 208 times (NAS) 183 (KJV) and it does not always mean death. Actually it very seldom means death rather as seen below means to cease, destroy, to cut down. Notice this word with the association of a covenant!

    Strong's concordance

    Karath. A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. Make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces) -- be chewed, be con-(feder-)ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ((covenant)), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.

    Here is the NAS translation of the word. Notice only once interpreted as kill.

    beams (3), cease (1), chewed (1), completely cut off (1), covenanted (1), cut (10), cut her off (1), cut him off (5), cut it down (1), cut it off (1), cut them down (1), cut you down (1), cut you off (2), cut down (23), cut off (129), cuts (1), cuts off (4), cutter (1), destroy (1), destroyed (3), fail (1), kill (1), lack (8), made (52), make (31), makes (2), making (2), making an in writing (1), perish (1).

    The correct understanding of the term "cut off" in Danial 9 is that the Messiah will not be killed rather cut off from the face of the people on the earth whereby he will confirm a covenant with "many".


    When will Messiah be "cut off" in the future? Christ being the door is shut and those standing on the other side are ie "cut off".


    John 10:9
    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    Luke 13:25
    When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    We see this door today still open but shut just prior to the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Rev 3:8
    8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


    What happens to those on earth once the door is shut and they find themselves cut off from the Messiah? they seek the word of the Lord but cannot find it as it has been cut off.


    Amos 8:12
    And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

    Dan 12:4
    But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


    Mistake #2 - Translating weeks to years.

    Well the first mistake leads to the next. When one believes cut off means death at the cross and that 490 literal days does not fit to the timing of the cross then the perverting of scripture ensues. So of course the first to convert 70 weeks to years then try to tie it to some past event claiming a covenant may or may not throw in a timeless gap on and on. Note please don't reply to this thread trying to prove 70 weeks is 490 years doing so only proving the lack of understanding. You this word for weeks is used in the nest chapter with Danial not eating for three weeks, should we translate that to mean three years? Who and when should we make this determination? We can't make private interpretation due to lack of understand the prophecy and do the unthinkable. The remaining translations will give support to the above,

    The covenant confirmed is the Abrahamic.
    The many to which it is confirmed is the remnant of Israel.
    The prince of the people to come is the army of God upon the second coming.
    The sacrifice and oblation which ceases is God's own sacrifice of flesh being prepared for the wedding feast.
    The 70th week (literal 7 days) will be this Feast of Tabernacles.

    Cut off is the door being shut after the 69 the week and before the 70th which culminates in the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

    End of 69th week

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    It is truly amazing that most if not all have interpreted this prophecy incorrectly. Some see it all past while others correctly understanding the prophecy does deal with the second coming see it a combination past and future. The truth is that all the prophecy is a future event. The fatal error is misunderstanding the term "cut off". This sets the reader on the wrong course off the bat wherein many other errors follow to attempt to understand and makes sense of the prophecy.

    Mistake #1 - misunderstanding the term "cut off". The fatal error.

    Fatal because it sets the reader in the wrong era concerning the prophecy. Everyone immediately associates Messiah being "cut off" as his death upon the cross, however as we will see this is an incorrect interpretation. First the term "cut off" is used 208 times (NAS) 183 (KJV) and it does not always mean death. Actually it very seldom means death rather as seen below means to cease, destroy, to cut down. Notice this word with the association of a covenant!

    Strong's concordance

    Karath. A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. Make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces) -- be chewed, be con-(feder-)ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ((covenant)), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.

    Here is the NAS translation of the word. Notice only once interpreted as kill.

    beams (3), cease (1), chewed (1), completely cut off (1), covenanted (1), cut (10), cut her off (1), cut him off (5), cut it down (1), cut it off (1), cut them down (1), cut you down (1), cut you off (2), cut down (23), cut off (129), cuts (1), cuts off (4), cutter (1), destroy (1), destroyed (3), fail (1), kill (1), lack (8), made (52), make (31), makes (2), making (2), making an in writing (1), perish (1).

    The correct understanding of the term "cut off" in Danial 9 is that the Messiah will not be killed rather cut off from the face of the people on the earth whereby he will confirm a covenant with "many".


    When will Messiah be "cut off" in the future? Christ being the door is shut and those standing on the other side are ie "cut off".


    John 10:9
    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    Luke 13:25
    When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    We see this door today still open but shut just prior to the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Rev 3:8
    8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


    What happens to those on earth once the door is shut and they find themselves cut off from the Messiah? they seek the word of the Lord but cannot find it as it has been cut off.


    Amos 8:12
    And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

    Dan 12:4
    But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


    Mistake #2 - Translating weeks to years.

    Well the first mistake leads to the next. When one believes cut off means death at the cross and that 490 literal days does not fit to the timing of the cross then the perverting of scripture ensues. So of course the first to convert 70 weeks to years then try to tie it to some past event claiming a covenant may or may not throw in a timeless gap on and on. Note please don't reply to this thread trying to prove 70 weeks is 490 years doing so only proving the lack of understanding. You this word for weeks is used in the nest chapter with Danial not eating for three weeks, should we translate that to mean three years? Who and when should we make this determination? We can't make private interpretation due to lack of understand the prophecy and do the unthinkable. The remaining translations will give support to the above,

    The covenant confirmed is the Abrahamic.
    The many to which it is confirmed is the remnant of Israel.
    The prince of the people to come is the army of God upon the second coming.
    The sacrifice and oblation which ceases is God's own sacrifice of flesh being prepared for the wedding feast.
    The 70th week (literal 7 days) will be this Feast of Tabernacles.

    Cut off is the door being shut after the 69 the week and before the 70th which culminates in the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

    End of 69th week

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    He that CONFIRMS the Covenant {Agreement} with MANY is the coming Anti-Christ.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    He that CONFIRMS the Covenant {Agreement} with MANY is the coming Anti-Christ.
    Do you have any biblical support?

    What previous covenant did the AC make that he is now confirming?

    Also the "he" in the verse needs to remain constant.

    27 And he (AC) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (AC) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of (AC) abominations he (AC) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Does the AC make it desolate due to his own abominations?

    When I first started studying prophecy I held the view the AC was the "he" in the verse. This was the first view which I was presented however after honest study there is no support for this view.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    When I first started studying prophecy I held the view the AC was the "he" in the verse. This was the first view which I was presented however after honest study there is no support for this view.
    Daniel 9:27a definitely refers to another 'prince' than the 'Anointed Prince' of verse 26. The invading 'prince' of verse 26b, must be Titus and what is described happened in 70-135 AD.
    Then there IS a gap of nearly 2000 years to verse 27, as Titus or any other leader has never made a Treaty with the Jews. That gap between the 69th and 70 'weeks', is undeniable; it has happened!

    The 'firm league' [REBible] or covenant or treaty, that is made between this 'prince' and the people who will occupy Jerusalem and all of the holy Land at the end of this Christian era, is for peace between them both. It will hold for the first half, but then with one half over, he will put a stop to the Temple worship and he will pollute it by entering the Holy of Holies place. As we are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:4

    This peace treaty is referred to in Isaiah 28:14-15 and again in Daniel 11:31-32, where the 'many' do violate the Covenant between them and God for His protection.
    All these things are in the near future and it is for each one of us to be ready for it and to stand firm in our faith and trust in Jesus.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Do you have any biblical support?

    What previous covenant did the AC make that he is now confirming?

    Also the "he" in the verse needs to remain constant.

    27 And he (AC) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (AC) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of (AC) abominations he (AC) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Does the AC make it desolate due to his own abominations?

    When I first started studying prophecy I held the view the AC was the "he" in the verse. This was the first view which I was presented however after honest study there is no support for this view.
    Lets take THE MANY in order as the come....

    Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and MANY COUNTRIES shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. {Central and South Jordan is where the Jews Flee unto}

    42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

    THE MANY means the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, which Beast only Conquered Israel and didn't rule the Whole Region ? Answer, NONE. The Hebrew Word for CONFIRM means to be insolent, and to force ones will on another. I think the word is GABAR.

    These Peace treaties, Trade Deals take years to hammer out, the Rapture isn't going top happen, and then all of the Sudden there is a 7 year deal in place. The E.U. currently has 7 year Deals in place with all these Nations {See European Neighborhood Policy}......The countries covered include Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria, Tunisia in the South.......

    The European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) is a foreign relations instrument of the European Union (EU) which seeks to tie those countries to the east and south of the European territory of the EU to the Union. These countries, primarily developing countries, include some who seek to one day become either a member state of the European Union, or more closely integrated with the European Union. The ENP does not apply to neighbours of the EU's outermost regions, specifically France's territories in South America, but only to those countries close to EU member states' territories in mainland Europe.

    These Deals were RENEWED in 2014 and are up again in 2020. They have STRINGS attached to the 15 Billion Euros of course !! The ole carrot and stick game.

    Now look at the MAP on that site, when the Anti--Christ Conquers Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and all of North Africa, the E.U. Map would then look EXACTLY like the Old Roman Empire or the Old Fourth Beast !!

    800px-EU_European_Neighbourhood_Policy_states.svg.jpg

    VS. The Old Roman Empire

    peak-of-roman-empire.gif

    If that worked.....the Old Roman Empire has a CONTINUUM with the Anti-Christ/Beast. Its even the exact same Land Mass.

    THE MANY has to be understood, no one can be a Beast without Conquering the whole Mediterranean Sea Region.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    No, Dan 9 and the 70 Weeks was all fulfilled in the past. That should definitely settle the issue!

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by Revelation Man View Post
    Lets take THE MANY in order as the come....

    Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    I agree "many" is the same group so why would the AC destroy those he made a covenant with?


    Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and MANY COUNTRIES shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. {Central and South Jordan is where the Jews Flee unto}

    THE MANY means the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, which Beast only Conquered Israel and didn't rule the Whole Region ? Answer, NONE. The Hebrew Word for CONFIRM means to be insolent, and to force ones will on another. I think the word is GABAR.
    Here you have stretched a bit. In the first case "many" is a noun, above "many" is used as an adjective. Thus many countries are not the same as the "many". Therefore "many" are not the countries in Mediterranean region.

    THE MANY has to be understood, no one can be a Beast without Conquering the whole Mediterranean Sea Region.
    The many correctly understood are the 144,000 whom God will confirm the Abrahamic covenant. Go back and read the first part of chapter 9 Danial speaks of a covenant promise to Israel which he was worried God will break with his people, God ultimately will not and in the last days confirm this covenant to "many" Israel!!!!!!

    The AC is against the covenant and goes to destroy those who hold to it. IE the "many" Israel as we see they killed by him.

    Dan 11
    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Daniel 9:27a definitely refers to another 'prince' than the 'Anointed Prince' of verse 26. The invading 'prince' of verse 26b, must be Titus and what is described happened in 70-135 AD.
    Then there IS a gap of nearly 2000 years to verse 27, as Titus or any other leader has never made a Treaty with the Jews. That gap between the 69th and 70 'weeks', is undeniable; it has happened!
    If part of the prophecy has happened in the past then it should not be a guessing game with the 69th week ended in your view. Titus was never a prince. Inserting a gap is not warranted otherwise on scripture..

    Now in scripture I can show you that a people of a true prince will destroy the city (Jerusalem aka Babylon) with a flood (God's army) wherein desolation is then determined upon the desolate (ie judgement).

    This peace treaty is referred to in Isaiah 28:14-15 and again in Daniel 11:31-32, where the 'many' do violate the Covenant between them and God for His protection.
    All these things are in the near future and it is for each one of us to be ready for it and to stand firm in our faith and trust in Jesus.
    Dan 11
    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    Well in Dan 11 it is clear the AC is against a covenant and he sides with those whom are against it as well. The "many" in verse 33 are those for this covenant and are killed by the AC...…..

    Now in Isaiah there does show those who make a covenant with death and hell but again this covenant is being CONFIRMED. You would need to show somewhere the AC has made a previous covenant that now he is confirming. But again the "many" as those the are killed by the AC and NOT part of his supposed treaty or whatever.

  9. #9

    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quite the discussion indeed! Continuing to read this thread as I sip my coffee!

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    If part of the prophecy has happened in the past then it should not be a guessing game with the 69th week ended in your view. Titus was never a prince.

    Well in Dan 11 it is clear the AC is against a covenant and he sides with those whom are against it as well. The "many" in verse 33 are those for this covenant and are killed by the AC...…..

    Now in Isaiah there does show those who make a covenant with death and hell but again this covenant is being CONFIRMED. You would need to show somewhere the AC has made a previous covenant that now he is confirming. But again the "many" as those the are killed by the AC and NOT part of his supposed treaty or whatever.
    The 69th 'week ended with the Crucifixion of Jesus. That is a given.

    Titus WAS a Prince. His father was Emperor and he became Emperor after him.

    By making a covenant or a treaty and signing it, that is confirmation and it is in effect from then.

    Where do you get the notion that the 'many' are killed? They agree with a peace treaty with the Anti-Christ.
    The ones killed are those who refused this treaty; Daniel 11:32-35


    Daniel 9:24 Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city – to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, vision and prophecy ratified and the Most Holy place anointed.

    Daniel 9:25-27 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Anointed One, the ruler comes – there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens. It will be rebuilt with streets and drains, but in troubled times. After the 62 sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come, will destroy the city and sanctuary. The end will come like a flood. War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with the many for one ‘seven’. In the middle of the seven, he will put an end to the sacrifice and offering. In the Temple, he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out upon him.
    Reference REB, NIV, KJV.

    Verse 24 - The Angel Gabriel’s message for the end of this age:
    1/To complete and finalize the transgressions of the wicked peoples.[Time of the Gentiles]
    2/ To make an end to disobedience against God. [Punishment of His enemies]
    3/ To make reconciliation for iniquity. [Forgiveness for His people]
    4/ To usher in the age of Righteousness. [The Christians– ‘a light to the nations’]
    5/ To fulfil prophesy. [The promises to the Patriarchs and to Israel]
    6/ To sanctify the Temple. [The Third Temple, built by the people of New Israel]

    Verse 25: 70 times 7 = 490 years. The first 7 ‘weeks’ = 49 years, starts from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem in the 20th year of the reign of Artaxerxes. This was in 445BC. Jerusalem’s walls and streets were rebuilt ‘even in troublous times’. As Nehemiah and Ezra describe.
    Verse 26 Then another 62 ‘weeks’ = 434 years, plus the 49, makes a total of 483 prophetic years until ‘Messiah, the Prince, is cut off’.
    ‘There shall be nothing for Him’, means that at that time He did not receive the Millennium Kingdom. ‘The people of the ruler to come, will destroy Jerusalem, including the Temple’, refers to the Roman destruction in 69/70AD. This gives us the clue to the origin of the Anti Christ, who will lead a restored Roman Empire, worldwide this time.

    Then, there has been a gap of nearly 2000 years, till the present day.
    The end period; the 70th of the 7 ‘weeks’ = 7 years will be made up of 2 periods of 1260 days each. It will be the closing time of this age, ‘the end shall be with a flood’. Flood is better translated as – an overflowing; of troubles. 2 Thessalonians 2:8

    Verse 27 The Anti Christ will make a 7 year treaty with the ‘many’. That is, the holy people of God: every born again Christian, living in their own Land. There will be a faithful group who will oppose this agreement, so this treaty is made with many, but not all of His people, the Israelites of God. Daniel 11:32, Isaiah 28:15.
    The Anti Christ will break this after 1260 days, which will commence the Great Tribulation. He sets up his own image in the Temple, 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then after the final 1260 days, he will meet his end. Daniel 11:45, Revelation 19:20.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    I agree "many" is the same group so why would the AC destroy those he made a covenant with?
    Because, like Daniel 8:25 says he destroys MANY by PEACE. Rev. 6, the 2nd Seal says Peace is TAKEN AWAY....It says it that way for a reason, its really just War, but God wants us to know that he gains his tactical advantage via a FAKE PEACE, like Hitler did. Hitler was like, Give me the Sudetenland back and I am all good, but he lied. This man will be much smarter than Hitler. He will gain his advantages via fake peace agreements. Covenant simply means Agreement in Hebrew.

    Here you have stretched a bit. In the first case "many" is a noun, above "many" is used as an adjective. Thus many countries are not the same as the "many". Therefore "many" are not the countries in Mediterranean region.
    I never get caught up in Nouns and such, the Hebrew language didn't even have vowels, so we are talking about a primitive language. YOWM has 50 meanings, and thus people actually think the universe/earth was created in 6 days instead of 13 billion years, its just not so.

    The MANY are indeed the MANY. All you have to do is follow the logistics here. People tend to want to stick with their own interpretations or MEN'S TRADITIONS they have clung to for years. I follow the evidence/facts, I don't want to be right as per my ideas, I want to be in the KNOW......And God will show us if we just ASK. When I asked God 5 years ago why I was stuck in the mud when I was specifically called unto Prophecy and WHY there was 100's of interpretations of Babylon etc. etc. I got this......Because you guys already know it all !! MEN'S TRADITIONS RULED it seems. We grew up clinging to things others taught about Revelation/Daniel because as young Christians it seemed way over our heads. God just wants us to ASK HIM to reveal His truths, not to defer to men per se. So anyone who can't see the E.U. is the Fourth Beast, they put a wall up. Anyone who can't see the Rapture come before the 70th week, they put the WALL UP. It doesn't change God's truths however. Jesus warned the Pharisees about what ? MEN'S TRADITIONS.

    The many correctly understood are the 144,000 whom God will confirm the Abrahamic covenant. Go back and read the first part of chapter 9 Danial speaks of a covenant promise to Israel which he was worried God will break with his people, God ultimately will not and in the last days confirm this covenant to "many" Israel!!!!!!

    The AC is against the covenant and goes to destroy those who hold to it. IE the "many" Israel as we see they killed by him.

    Dan 11
    30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
    31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
    32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
    33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
    Daniel in his prayer for his people reminds God about his AGREEMENT {COVENANT} with Israel, because the 70th year of bondage is nearing, and God tells him that the Jeremiah Prophecy is now 70 x 7 because of Israel's continued disobedience. The AGREEMENT in verse 27 is the Anti-Christ with the MANY Nations and Israel. Only the Sacrifice {Jesus} and the Oblation [tribute to Jesus] are mentioned as per what will be will be taken away as per Israel, who have by this time REPENTED, because the bible is about Israel. This Beast however DEMANDS Beast Worship by all, see Rev. 13, and thus he will not allow Allah Worship in the Muslim nations either, its just not stated, God is speaking about Israel in general, but THE MANY are mentioned in passing.

    The 144,000 are ALL Israel who Repent {the 1/3 mentioned in Zechariah 13:8-9} The number 12 = Fullness thus 12 x 12,000 = ALL Israel. This is the 2 to 3 million Jews who Flee Judea, unless more Jews move there before that time. The wold population is about 15 million I think. So its not 144,000 "PREACHERS" they are never said to Preach the Gospel ANYWHERE, I tried to prove they did, THEY DON'T. Its Men's Tradition again.

    NOTICE when we see them, after the SEALS but before the TRUMPETS which hurt the Earth !! God says HOLD UP on the Winds from the Four Corners that hurt the EARTH, TREES and the SEAS !! That is the Trumpet Judgments !! So God is making sure the 144,000 {Fleeing Jews} make it to the Petra/Bozrah area before he starts hitting the earth with His Trumpet Judgments of Fire that burns the Trees and Grass and then other Trumpet Judgments.

    It fits right in between. SEALS, Anti-Christ goes Forth.........Jews Flee Judea............God Holds off the Judgments until they make it to Petra. Everything in Revelation is ENCODED or written in Metaphoric lingo.

    Its not the same Agreement. The Hebrew word doesn't have to apply to a Holy Covenant.

    Verses 30-33 is about Antiochus.

  12. #12

    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Daniel 9:27a definitely refers to another 'prince' than the 'Anointed Prince' of verse 26. The invading 'prince' of verse 26b, must be Titus and what is described happened in 70-135 AD.
    Then there IS a gap of nearly 2000 years to verse 27, as Titus or any other leader has never made a Treaty with the Jews. That gap between the 69th and 70 'weeks', is undeniable; it has happened!

    The 'firm league' [REBible] or covenant or treaty, that is made between this 'prince' and the people who will occupy Jerusalem and all of the holy Land at the end of this Christian era, is for peace between them both. It will hold for the first half, but then with one half over, he will put a stop to the Temple worship and he will pollute it by entering the Holy of Holies place. As we are told in 2 Thessalonians 2:4

    This peace treaty is referred to in Isaiah 28:14-15 and again in Daniel 11:31-32, where the 'many' do violate the Covenant between them and God for His protection.
    All these things are in the near future and it is for each one of us to be ready for it and to stand firm in our faith and trust in Jesus.
    Those Nero appointed to the task of subjugating the Jews. Vespasian would take command of the V and X Legions in Syria, and Vespasian’s son, Titus, would march the XV Legion overland from Alexandria, Egypt to the base camp at Ptolemiais near Mount Carmel in Palestine to be joined by his father.
    In Ptolemiais, in early AD 67, Vespasian assembled a considerable force of allies from many nations:
    ...eighteen cohorts followed these legions; there came also five cohorts from Cæsarea, with one troop of horsemen, and five other troops of horsemen from Syria...There were also a considerable number of auxiliaries got together, that came from the kings Antiochus, and Agrippa [II], and Sohemus, each of them contributing one thousand footmen that were archers, and a thousand horsemen. Malchus also, the king of Arabia, sent a thousand horsemen, besides five thousand footmen, the greatest part of which were archers; so that the whole army, including the auxiliaries sent by the kings, as well horsemen as footmen, when all were united together, amounted to sixty thousand, besides the servants, who, as they followed in vast numbers... (Wars III.4.2)
    --- the convenant and the many.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Bryan, RM, Keraz

    The "many" in Danial are NOT those which align with the beast but opposite.

    The "many" are instructed on the truth.

    33a And they that understand among the people shall instruct many:

    The "many" are killed due to this truth

    33b yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    The "many" are killed by the beast

    44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

    The "many" can be reference to both good and bad.

    2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    However if they are killed for the truth by the beast then we know the "many" in chapter 11 are those which rise to everlasting life.

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    Re: The MANY errors interpreting the 70 weeks of Daniel

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    It is truly amazing that most if not all have interpreted this prophecy incorrectly. Some see it all past while others correctly understanding the prophecy does deal with the second coming see it a combination past and future. The truth is that all the prophecy is a future event. The fatal error is misunderstanding the term "cut off". This sets the reader on the wrong course off the bat wherein many other errors follow to attempt to understand and makes sense of the prophecy.

    Mistake #1 - misunderstanding the term "cut off". The fatal error.

    Fatal because it sets the reader in the wrong era concerning the prophecy. Everyone immediately associates Messiah being "cut off" as his death upon the cross, however as we will see this is an incorrect interpretation. First the term "cut off" is used 208 times (NAS) 183 (KJV) and it does not always mean death. Actually it very seldom means death rather as seen below means to cease, destroy, to cut down. Notice this word with the association of a covenant!

    Strong's concordance

    Karath. A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. Make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces) -- be chewed, be con-(feder-)ate, covenant, cut (down, off), destroy, fail, feller, be freed, hew (down), make a league ((covenant)), X lose, perish, X utterly, X want.

    Here is the NAS translation of the word. Notice only once interpreted as kill.

    beams (3), cease (1), chewed (1), completely cut off (1), covenanted (1), cut (10), cut her off (1), cut him off (5), cut it down (1), cut it off (1), cut them down (1), cut you down (1), cut you off (2), cut down (23), cut off (129), cuts (1), cuts off (4), cutter (1), destroy (1), destroyed (3), fail (1), kill (1), lack (8), made (52), make (31), makes (2), making (2), making an in writing (1), perish (1).

    The correct understanding of the term "cut off" in Danial 9 is that the Messiah will not be killed rather cut off from the face of the people on the earth whereby he will confirm a covenant with "many".


    When will Messiah be "cut off" in the future? Christ being the door is shut and those standing on the other side are ie "cut off".


    John 10:9
    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    Luke 13:25
    When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    We see this door today still open but shut just prior to the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Rev 3:8
    8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.


    What happens to those on earth once the door is shut and they find themselves cut off from the Messiah? they seek the word of the Lord but cannot find it as it has been cut off.


    Amos 8:12
    And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

    Dan 12:4
    But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro,

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


    Mistake #2 - Translating weeks to years.

    Well the first mistake leads to the next. When one believes cut off means death at the cross and that 490 literal days does not fit to the timing of the cross then the perverting of scripture ensues. So of course the first to convert 70 weeks to years then try to tie it to some past event claiming a covenant may or may not throw in a timeless gap on and on. Note please don't reply to this thread trying to prove 70 weeks is 490 years doing so only proving the lack of understanding. You this word for weeks is used in the nest chapter with Danial not eating for three weeks, should we translate that to mean three years? Who and when should we make this determination? We can't make private interpretation due to lack of understand the prophecy and do the unthinkable. The remaining translations will give support to the above,

    The covenant confirmed is the Abrahamic.
    The many to which it is confirmed is the remnant of Israel.
    The prince of the people to come is the army of God upon the second coming.
    The sacrifice and oblation which ceases is God's own sacrifice of flesh being prepared for the wedding feast.
    The 70th week (literal 7 days) will be this Feast of Tabernacles.

    Cut off is the door being shut after the 69 the week and before the 70th which culminates in the second coming and the marriage of the Lamb.

    Matt 25:10
    And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

    End of 69th week

    Matt 25
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    Since we are literally seeing this prophecy unfold before our very eyes, it is pretty clear to me how the futurist Daniel 9 70 weeks plays out:

    70 years of desolations of Jerusalem (Daniel 9:2), 70 weeks to anoint the most holy, 7 weeks until messiah, 62 weeks until messiah, half a week, 1335 days, then 70 weeks to finish the transgression, the last week of which is Hanukah.

    After the 62 weeks time period, at least one of the messiahs gets 'killed'/ 'cut off'. This is the 'mortal head wound' that gets healed (Zechariah 11:17's worthless shepherd).

    The 70 years of Jerusalem desolations started 5 Iyar, 5708. Add 70 years to get to 5 Iyar, 5778, aka dusk April 19, 2018. Add 70 weeks to anoint the most holy to get the last day of which being dusk Aug 21/ dusk Aug 22, 2019 which is when Pres. Trump anointed himself the 'king of Israel', the 'second coming of God', and the 'chosen one'. https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/21/polit...lex/index.html

    Then 7 weeks later until 'messiah' is dusk Oct 9/ dusk Oct 10, 2019 which is when PM Netanyahu was selected, ending the govt gridlock. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...tamp-1.7966482

    Maybe some of you are familiar with the 'messiah prophecy' surrounding the lack of an Israeli govt which will then end with the messiah arrival: https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/1...ay-to-messiah/
    In June, Breaking Israel News published an article citing a 40-year-old prediction byRabbi Yitzchak Kaduri, the most famous Kabbalist (mystic) in Israel until his death in 2006. According to an eyewitness, Rabbi Kaduri predicted that the Messiah will be revealed following an election stalemate in Israel. At a small gathering, Rabbi Kadur was asked when the Moshiach (Messiah) will come. He answered, ‘When there will be elections but there will not be a government’.”

    That prediction is even more powerful after the second round of elections held last week leave both major parties struggling to form a coalition government.

    An article in Yisrael Hayom, a Hebrew language news service, confirmed Rabbi Kaduri’s prediction and added even more details. Yisrael Hayom reported on Monday that a book was found in the yeshiva (Torah learning institution) Nahalat Yitzhak, founded in Jerusalem by Rabbi Kaduri’s son, Rabbi David Kaduri, with a focus on the study of Kabbalah (mysticism). The book, titled “O’Shvuato L’Yischak” (‘and an oath to Yitzchak’ from Psalms 105:9), was written by Rabbi Yitzchak Kadouri when he was quite young and hidden away.

    In the book there is a startling section which reads:

    “On the eve of the fifth cycle of a thousand years, the year 5780 is a year of fixing. There will be no government in Israel for an extended period and the different camps will fight and argue a great deal without any conclusion in this way or the other. Then, on Rosh Hashanna (the Jewish New Year which will be next Sunday evening) the side of holiness will battle the side of darkness in heaven until God himself and his Hosts will decide the issue.”
    So either Trump or Netanyahu will be getting a mortal head wound (after the 62 weeks/ dusk Dec 17, 2020) and will be what is popularly known as the 'antichrist'.

    I hope that people are saying to themselves that Trump is not a holy person, but, that is part of the scope of the prophecy: Satan is fulfilling prophecy to be the messiah, just like Jesus did.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O3p...ew?usp=sharing

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cxx...ew?usp=sharing

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