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Thread: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

  1. #16
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    It has been changing,

    Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2Cor.5:17
    I agree that Man will change. Why not the earth? Do you really think that Man was not given an eternal place to dwell?

  2. #17

    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Yes definitely we are in a spiritual war, that concept does not infer we are ghosts in a spiritual world. We have flesh and blood, this world is full of corrupt leaders, Christians get physically persecuted, wars actually occur, and Jesus will actually come again to put order and morality and fairness into this corrupt world.
    No brother. Jesus came into the world 2000 years ago to put order, morality and fairness into corrupt people like us and continues to do so by his Spirit. When Jesus returns, he's going to destroy corrupt people.

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Even in Daniel's day, Daniel describes wars in the heavenlies, but also predicts actual wars and the rise and fall of kingdoms, and these occurred literally, with that as our precedent we can expect a final literal war exactly how the Bible describes it.

    I'm not sure why I should only pick one prophecy to discuss. Multiple prophecies add strength to a case.

    The war is in progress when Jesus returns to save Jerusalem. Joel 2 indicates the war comes first, then the repentance of Israel and God's intervention.

    Zech 14 indicates the war comes first, the nations come against Israel, then God intervenes.

    Ezekiel 38/39 predicts the war against Israel comes first, then the repentance and blessing of Israel.

    In Rev 6, death by the sword comes first, then the leaders hide from the wrath of the lamb.

    Rev 16 isn't as clear, describing the gathering armies at Armageddon, and end of the world events like the great earthquake, and hailstones.

    The trumpets of Rev 9-11 describe the great army at the 6th trumpet, then the Messiah takes over the kingdoms of the world at the 7th trumpet

    Zech 12 describes the same war, the nations attack Israel, and then God intervenes, and Israel enters a time of blessing.

    With such a strong precedent of the prophets predicting actual physical wars, and these wars occurring, there is no reason to doubt that this massive army from the north and the east will attack Israel on the final day of this age.
    I suggested discussing only one passage, because these posts get too long.

    In Zech.14, God says he will gather all nations against Jerusalem and when that happens, he will fight for his people. Then, living waters will issue from the City of God (vs.2-3, 8).

    When we look at what Jesus and the Apostles taught, we see that the "living waters" is speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to believers.

    Jesus didn't need to become King over all the earth. He always has been,

    And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zech.14:9

    We simply didn't know this. That's all he's saying. God doesn't need our approval to be King over his creation. He doesn't need to defeat anyone to be Lord of all, but we now know he's the King eternal because of what He did. Read the passage that way.

  3. #18
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You do make a good point there, but on the balance of logic the descriptions in Isaiah 65 and 66 match the land of Israel immediately after the second coming, and not 1000 years later. The dead bodies from the war against Israel are still there, the place names are still there, there are mortals with long life, yet Rev 21 has no more death.

    They are building houses in Jerusalem in Isaiah 65, yet the New Jerusalem is so massive, it takes up all of Israel, not just Jerusalem. Isaiah 65 describes the regathering of Israel at that time, which is a second coming event, not a post-millennial event.

    My conclusion is that although the land was renewed at the flood, and again at the second coming, these are partial renewals, still the first land. But at the millennium there will be a more dramatic change, the land "fled away" to such an extent there is no more sea.

    I know it's not entirely satisfactory, but that's my best answer. Isaiah 65/66 certainly looks like a partial second coming transformation, rather than a complete Rev 21 transformation of the land.
    You make the correct point about the NHNE, but then go against your own point by decrying NHNE in Isaiah 65 & 66 as being the SAME NHNE.
    The ONLY NHNE that Rev 21 can be referring to IS one which comes after this present one, and therefore MUST be the SAME NHNE as noted in Isaiah 865 & 66, otherwise Rev 21 would say, and I saw a SECOND NHNE, for the first TWO were gone.
    That however is NOT what it says.
    In Rev 21 it does NOT say there is no more death anywhere - for it notes elsewhere that there are sinners outside the city etc. No Rev 21 references ONLY the NJ as having no more death, and THAT claim matches that in Isaiah 65!

    Actually will we be involved the in the building of our own houses in the NJ? You seem to think not.

    There are also PHYSICAL seas in Rev 21. What is missing is the "sea" which is NOT referring to seas in general but the specific sea that is mentioned elsewhere in Revelation.

  4. #19

    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    I agree that Man will change. Why not the earth? Do you really think that Man was not given an eternal place to dwell?
    Yes I do, but not along with anyone or anything corrupted. When reading any passage where it appears the immortal and mortal live side by side, it can only mean those who presently have eternal life through Christ are living with those who don't.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    No brother. Jesus came into the world 2000 years ago to put order, morality and fairness into corrupt people like us and continues to do so by his Spirit. When Jesus returns, he's going to destroy corrupt people.

    I suggested discussing only one passage, because these posts get too long.

    In Zech.14, God says he will gather all nations against Jerusalem and when that happens, he will fight for his people. Then, living waters will issue from the City of God (vs.2-3, 8).

    When we look at what Jesus and the Apostles taught, we see that the "living waters" is speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to believers.

    Jesus didn't need to become King over all the earth. He always has been,

    And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zech.14:9

    We simply didn't know this. That's all he's saying. God doesn't need our approval to be King over his creation. He doesn't need to defeat anyone to be Lord of all, but we now know he's the King eternal because of what He did. Read the passage that way.
    Amen I've been saying this for a while

    John 7:37-39
    37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[c] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

  6. #21
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    No brother. Jesus came into the world 2000 years ago to put order, morality and fairness into corrupt people like us and continues to do so by his Spirit. When Jesus returns, he's going to destroy corrupt people.

    I suggested discussing only one passage, because these posts get too long.

    In Zech.14, God says he will gather all nations against Jerusalem and when that happens, he will fight for his people. Then, living waters will issue from the City of God (vs.2-3, 8).

    When we look at what Jesus and the Apostles taught, we see that the "living waters" is speaking of the Holy Spirit being given to believers.

    Jesus didn't need to become King over all the earth. He always has been,

    And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zech.14:9

    We simply didn't know this. That's all he's saying. God doesn't need our approval to be King over his creation. He doesn't need to defeat anyone to be Lord of all, but we now know he's the King eternal because of what He did. Read the passage that way.
    Yes we both agree that Jesus brought in righteousness, however you can't deny that the leaders of this world are corrupt and this will change at the second coming. This will be a physical literal change, and so we have prophecies about this future event.

    You may think that all the unsaved die at the second coming, I believe some nations live on because of many verses. This is because I take Zech 14 and many many other verses literally and you do not. The problem then is our methodology, I see prophecy as literal unless the symbols are obvious. When there is a lot of detail, I take the prophecy as literal, because I find that symbolising all the detail is really just making up stuff to fit one's preconceived notions.

    Regarding "living waters", just because we have the living waters, does not mean that the land cant have it to.
    Just because we have the anointing , does not mean that Mt Zion cannot be anointed
    Just because we are the olive tree, does not mean there cannot be olive trees in future.
    Just because we are the house of God, does not mean other creatures and angels cannot also be the house of God
    Just because God inhabits living beings, does not imply that God cannot inhabit inanimate objects too, he is omnipresent.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman View Post
    Yes I do, but not along with anyone or anything corrupted. When reading any passage where it appears the immortal and mortal live side by side, it can only mean those who presently have eternal life through Christ are living with those who don't.
    This is exactly what will occur according to Rev 20. Some want to place the martydom of the beast into history, yet it is mentioned in the book of Revelation which precisely places the beast and the persecution of the beast during the final 3.5 years of this age. The 1000 years of ruling over the nations therefore occur in the next age.

  8. #23
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    You do make a good point there, but on the balance of logic the descriptions in Isaiah 65 and 66 match the land of Israel immediately after the second coming, and not 1000 years later. The dead bodies from the war against Israel are still there, the place names are still there, there are mortals with long life, yet Rev 21 has no more death.

    They are building houses in Jerusalem in Isaiah 65, yet the New Jerusalem is so massive, it takes up all of Israel, not just Jerusalem. Isaiah 65 describes the regathering of Israel at that time, which is a second coming event, not a post-millennial event.

    My conclusion is that although the land was renewed at the flood, and again at the second coming, these are partial renewals, still the first land. But at the millennium there will be a more dramatic change, the land "fled away" to such an extent there is no more sea.

    I know it's not entirely satisfactory, but that's my best answer. Isaiah 65/66 certainly looks like a partial second coming transformation, rather than a complete Rev 21 transformation of the land.
    Consider the following for a moment then.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

    It first says...His name shall endure for ever. Then is says... his name shall be continued as long as the sun. Obviously then, in order for his name to endure forever, and that it shall be continued as long as the sun, assuming 'long' is related to length, that means the sun has to continue forever as well.

    Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Does this mean there is no longer a sun then? Of course not since that would contradict Psalms 72:17. The text in Revelation 21:23 tells us it is the city which has no need of the sun. The city is not the entire earth though. There are still nations outside of the city, thus these nations would still be in need of the sun. My over all point is this, it is within the city where a lot of these things are true. But outside of the city though, not everything applicable to inside the city is also applicable to outside of the city as well.

    So while Isaiah 65 might be showing death during the NHNE, it is not within the city where death would be occurring, it would be outside of the city instead.

    Maybe you are not convinced, but I am, that the Jerusalem those in Zech 14 have to go up to from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles, this is meaning this same new Jerusalem in Rev 21-22.

    Also, unless you haven't noticed, how can the following not be describing the exact same place and time?

    Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

    Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    If these aren't describing the same place and time, that would indicate that if...and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying...is not meaning for forever at this point, that makes this verse a lie then.

  9. #24
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Consider the following for a moment then.

    Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

    It first says...His name shall endure for ever. Then is says... his name shall be continued as long as the sun. Obviously then, in order for his name to endure forever, and that it shall be continued as long as the sun, assuming 'long' is related to length, that means the sun has to continue forever as well.

    Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Does this mean there is no longer a sun then? Of course not since that would contradict Psalms 72:17. The text in Revelation 21:23 tells us it is the city which has no need of the sun. The city is not the entire earth though. There are still nations outside of the city, thus these nations would still be in need of the sun. My over all point is this, it is within the city where a lot of these things are true. But outside of the city though, not everything applicable to inside the city is also applicable to outside of the city as well.

    So while Isaiah 65 might be showing death during the NHNE, it is not within the city where death would be occurring, it would be outside of the city instead.

    Maybe you are not convinced, but I am, that the Jerusalem those in Zech 14 have to go up to from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles, this is meaning this same new Jerusalem in Rev 21-22.

    Also, unless you haven't noticed, how can the following not be describing the exact same place and time?

    Isaiah 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

    Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

    If these aren't describing the same place and time, that would indicate that if...and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying...is not meaning for forever at this point, that makes this verse a lie then.
    Once again you make very good points, but within the Isaiah 65 city there is death, and yet within the Rev 21 city there is no death:

    I will rejoice over Jerusalem
    and take delight in my people;
    the sound of weeping and of crying
    will be heard in it no more.

    20 “Never again will there be in it
    an infant who lives but a few days,
    or an old man who does not live out his years;-
    the one who dies at a hundred
    will be thought a mere child;

    I can only assume that the verse is referring to no audible public weeping, which would have previously come from city wide disaster, wars, and national repentance. The wording specifically refers to AUDIBLE sounds, the sound of weeping, the voice of crying isn't heard in the city because there are no further national disasters. Yet in Rev 21, there is NO weeping, and NO death. There is a subtle difference there.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Isaiah 66:5-6 Hear the Word of the Lord, you who revere His Name and keep His commandments. Those scoffers who say: Where is the Lord? When will your so-called God do anything? They will be shocked, for with a great noise His retribution will fall upon them. 2 Peter 3:3-10
    Isaiah 63:18 Why have ungodly people trespassed on Your holy place? Why do enemies trample the holy Land? Psalm 37:10-11, Jeremiah 6:12

    Jeremiah 12:8-17 Is this Land of Mine a hyena’s lair? The birds of prey and the wild beasts have taken My holy Land over, they ravage it and trample it down, making it a desolation, to My sorrow. The Lord says: I shall uproot all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people. Judah too, I shall uproot, but if any of them learn the right ways of My people, then they can join and live again in the holy Land. My sword of punishment will devour the Land from end to end, no living thing will remain there. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 6:11-13

    Psalms 7:12-16 The enemy prepares his weapons again, but it is against himself that he has made ready his deadly shafts, tipped with fire. They are all in collusion with iniquity and sinfulness, their plans for violence and terror will fall upon their own heads.

    Psalms 68:1-3 May God arise and His enemies be scattered. He will disperse them like smoke. His fire will melt them like wax and they will perish in the heat of His wrath, but the righteous will be joyful, as they exult in the triumph of their God.

    Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, all in an instant, punishment will come from God Almighty with thunder, earthquakes and a great noise, with storm tempest and flames of devouring fire. The horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, that multitude of ruthless foes will scatter like chaff. Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 66:15-16, Rev. 6:12-17

    Micah 5:7-15 All the remnant of the descendants of Jacob, now dispersed among the nations, will become like dew from the Lord, they will look only to Him who saves them. Their enemy’s will be destroyed, but on that Day their military power will be lost, all the occult followers will die and any things of idol worship will be gone. Amos 9:10 In anger and fury the Lord will wreak vengeance on all the peoples who disobey Him. Isaiah 66:15-17

    Zechariah 8:11-13 The Lord says: I do not feel the same now toward the remnant of My people, as I did in former days. Hosea 11:8-11 Now I shall save you and bless you, you will work the Land in safety, the sky will give rain and the soil will yield abundant produce. Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:23-27, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 30:18-22 Ref: REB abridged and paraphrased.

    Birds of prey and wild beasts have taken over My Land… and the evil neighbours… These are metaphors for the ungodly peoples who are now living in all of the holy Land.
    The enemies deadly shafts, tipped with fire – an ancient description for a modern weapon: a nuke tipped missile. It is against themselves they have prepared their weapons and they will fall onto their own heads. All the weapons ready to fire at Israel will explode on the launch pad or in their bunkers.

    Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come in the heat of the Lord’s wrath, causing earthquakes with flames of fire that will burn His enemies to ashes. As described here and throughout the Bible, this will be a huge coronal mass ejection sun explosion that will fulfill all the graphic prophecies about the Lord’s judgement by fire. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

    But the punishment by exile of Israel and of all who revere His Name and keep the Commandments, will be completed and the Lord will save and bless them. They will go to their inheritance, all that area promised to Abraham, cleansed from end to end by this terrible devastation by fire. Many prophecies tell about the great second Exodus of righteous Israel to the holy Land, where they will work the Land in safety, being a light to the nations, all as originally meant for them. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to tell the world the gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18b-21

  11. #26
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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Isaiah 66:5-6 Hear the Word of the Lord, you who revere His Name and keep His commandments. Those scoffers who say: Where is the Lord? When will your so-called God do anything? They will be shocked, for with a great noise His retribution will fall upon them. 2 Peter 3:3-10
    Isaiah 63:18 Why have ungodly people trespassed on Your holy place? Why do enemies trample the holy Land? Psalm 37:10-11, Jeremiah 6:12

    Jeremiah 12:8-17 Is this Land of Mine a hyena’s lair? The birds of prey and the wild beasts have taken My holy Land over, they ravage it and trample it down, making it a desolation, to My sorrow. The Lord says: I shall uproot all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the Land that I allotted to My people. Judah too, I shall uproot, but if any of them learn the right ways of My people, then they can join and live again in the holy Land. My sword of punishment will devour the Land from end to end, no living thing will remain there. Ezekiel 21:1-7, Isaiah 6:11-13

    Psalms 7:12-16 The enemy prepares his weapons again, but it is against himself that he has made ready his deadly shafts, tipped with fire. They are all in collusion with iniquity and sinfulness, their plans for violence and terror will fall upon their own heads.

    Psalms 68:1-3 May God arise and His enemies be scattered. He will disperse them like smoke. His fire will melt them like wax and they will perish in the heat of His wrath, but the righteous will be joyful, as they exult in the triumph of their God.

    Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, all in an instant, punishment will come from God Almighty with thunder, earthquakes and a great noise, with storm tempest and flames of devouring fire. The horde of your enemies will crumble into dust, that multitude of ruthless foes will scatter like chaff. Zephaniah 3:8, Isaiah 66:15-16, Rev. 6:12-17

    Micah 5:7-15 All the remnant of the descendants of Jacob, now dispersed among the nations, will become like dew from the Lord, they will look only to Him who saves them. Their enemy’s will be destroyed, but on that Day their military power will be lost, all the occult followers will die and any things of idol worship will be gone. Amos 9:10 In anger and fury the Lord will wreak vengeance on all the peoples who disobey Him. Isaiah 66:15-17

    Zechariah 8:11-13 The Lord says: I do not feel the same now toward the remnant of My people, as I did in former days. Hosea 11:8-11 Now I shall save you and bless you, you will work the Land in safety, the sky will give rain and the soil will yield abundant produce. Ezekiel 36:8, Joel 2:23-27, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 30:18-22 Ref: REB abridged and paraphrased.

    Birds of prey and wild beasts have taken over My Land… and the evil neighbours… These are metaphors for the ungodly peoples who are now living in all of the holy Land.
    The enemies deadly shafts, tipped with fire – an ancient description for a modern weapon: a nuke tipped missile. It is against themselves they have prepared their weapons and they will fall onto their own heads. All the weapons ready to fire at Israel will explode on the launch pad or in their bunkers.

    Suddenly, in an instant, punishment will come in the heat of the Lord’s wrath, causing earthquakes with flames of fire that will burn His enemies to ashes. As described here and throughout the Bible, this will be a huge coronal mass ejection sun explosion that will fulfill all the graphic prophecies about the Lord’s judgement by fire. Isaiah 30:25-28, Malachi 4:1 & 3

    But the punishment by exile of Israel and of all who revere His Name and keep the Commandments, will be completed and the Lord will save and bless them. They will go to their inheritance, all that area promised to Abraham, cleansed from end to end by this terrible devastation by fire. Many prophecies tell about the great second Exodus of righteous Israel to the holy Land, where they will work the Land in safety, being a light to the nations, all as originally meant for them. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to tell the world the gospel of the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:18b-21
    We may disagree on the details, but I do agree that the second coming will be a day of fiery wrath. Elements will burn, land will be laid bare, the sky will appear to roll away (rolling dust clouds?).

    And I agree too that Israel will then be cleansed, and there will be a second exodus to Israel. There are many chapters of this nature.

    The disciples were still expecting the restoration of the kingdom of Israel, and Jesus does not deny this at all :
    Acts 1: Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?
    7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.


    Jesus clearly implies there is a date set for the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    We may disagree on the details, but I do agree that the second coming will be a day of fiery wrath. Elements will burn, land will be laid bare, the sky will appear to roll away (rolling dust clouds?).

    And I agree too that Israel will then be cleansed, and there will be a second exodus to Israel. There are many chapters of this nature.

    The disciples were still expecting the restoration of the kingdom of Israel, and Jesus does not deny this at all :
    Acts 1: Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?
    7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.


    Jesus clearly implies there is a date set for the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.
    Jesus does not Return in wrath and fire. The 3 descriptions of the Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11-21, don't mention fire and Jesus simply uses the Sword of His Word to kill the attacking armies.
    The terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, will occur at least 10 years before the Return. The Sixth Seal, as shown in the Revelation sequence, will be the event that sets the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

    See my thread on the Great Second Exodus, it will happen soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. The Israelites who will settle into all of the land, are people from every tribe, race, nation and language; the true Israelites of God.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    Jesus does not Return in wrath and fire. The 3 descriptions of the Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11-21, don't mention fire and Jesus simply uses the Sword of His Word to kill the attacking armies.
    The terrible Day of the Lord's wrath by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis, will occur at least 10 years before the Return. The Sixth Seal, as shown in the Revelation sequence, will be the event that sets the scene for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

    See my thread on the Great Second Exodus, it will happen soon after the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. The Israelites who will settle into all of the land, are people from every tribe, race, nation and language; the true Israelites of God.
    Okay I didn't realise you separated that CME from the second coming. I see the 6th seal in Rev 6 and the burning wrath of 2 Peter 3 as the actual second coming.

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Okay I didn't realise you separated that CME from the second coming. I see the 6th seal in Rev 6 and the burning wrath of 2 Peter 3 as the actual second coming.
    But I just proved that the fiery wrath of the Lord is not the same event as the Return.
    He is not seen at the Sixth Seal; at all the prophesies that describe the great and terrible Day of the Lords wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:111, Habakkuk 3:4,Jeremiah 25:30, +

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    Re: *ISAIAH AND THE NEW EARTH*

    Quote Originally Posted by Keraz View Post
    But I just proved that the fiery wrath of the Lord is not the same event as the Return.
    He is not seen at the Sixth Seal; at all the prophesies that describe the great and terrible Day of the Lords wrath. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:111, Habakkuk 3:4,Jeremiah 25:30, +
    If the leaders of the world run and hide from the Lamb at the 6th seal, I regard that as the visible second coming, fitting in with the end of the age described in Isaiah 2 when people hide from the presence of the Lord.

    Rev 6:
    hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come

    Strangely many still do not realize that the 6th seal is the actual second coming, believing that God's wrath comes more than once in a dramatic earthquake and dramatic presence and the fear of the nations. I believe in one day of God's wrath, at the second coming.

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