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Thread: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

  1. #751
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Given that Amil usually claims only one resurrection of saved and unsaved, it's best to make sure we follow the scriptures and make sure we mention the two different days of resurrection
    Two resurrections, first (saved), last (ie second/unsaved), same day.

    And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    Are you saying the last day is 1000 years + long.

    Again the harvest occurs for the same time for the saved and unsaved. Also we have this happening before the 1000 years as well. Note the unsaved cast into the fire BEFORE the 1000 years!

    31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

  2. #752
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by ewq1938 View Post
    Correct. Satan is never shown as imprisoned in the pit prior to the second coming. That is something directly tied to the second coming and the defeat of the beast and FP. Only after those events is Satan ever imprisoned. Revelation, especially 19 and 20 will always be the key that dismantles the Amil interpretation.
    So who comes up from the pit shown in Rev 11 and rev 17?

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Ok what then, so you have a different view of Rev 12.

    What does that have to do with anything? Many believe the woman is Mary the mother of Jesus. It hardly discredits the resurrection or end time events.

    We have discussed chapter 12 many times. There are many different view points on this chapter.

    For all I'm concerned, have it your way. Chapter 12 could be referring to Adam and Eve in the garden. So what if it is?
    TM,

    You are correct on Amil however you loose the argument and credibility defending a view and insisting Satan is bound today. Dave, is correct in showing you he is not.

    The solution for both is the 1000 years is not literally a 1000 years but metaphoric for a certain time occurring on earth. John uses 1000 as time outside this realm is not measured. The 1000 years covers the 3.5 years on earth. Thus we see just before the 3.5 years in Rev 12 Satan cast from heaven and is bound. Thus he was not bound at the cross but still will be in the future. The "1000" years it he period in which Satan is in the pit which covers a 3.5 years period on earth. The little season is from 3.5 years (1260) to 1335th day.

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Rev 12 still proves satan is not bound any time in this age, because if he was, one would be able to find it it and show it in Rev 12 somewhere.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Into the earth. This is the event when satan is cast into the pit.

    12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Note the devil has come down to the inhabitants of the sea? Now who lives in the sea? The dead!

    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    And where does the beasts arise from in Rev 13? The sea and the earth.

    The bottomless pit is beneath the sea. So when something rises from the sea it is rising from this bottomless pit.

    So do we really have two entities arises up out of the pit on two different occasions? And two different little seasons?

    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    You would think none of those things would remotely be taking place during the thousand years. Yet during the Amils proposed thousand years, those things and some, are taking place throughout it. If the Amils proposed thousand years have been this devastating, I can't imagine what might be in store during Amils proposed satan's little season. Yet when it comes to Amil though, there seems to be no difference between the thousand years and satan's little season to begin with, since satan can still do all of the things while he is bound that he can do while he is loosed. Only in Amil though. Premil recognizes that satan can't do the same things while he is bound that he can do while he is loosed. Logic has to trump in this case.
    You definitely shoot down traditional Amil. I agree with your reasoning. However my Hybrid Amil in which has the 1000 year period non defined time outside this realm coincides with the 3.5 years on earth in which Satan is in the pit but his son is upon the earth. This period will be the wrath under the beast. 1000 years = 3.5 years on earth (satan in pit) The little season is God's wrath (7 vials) from 1260-1335. (Satan released from pit)

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    Two resurrections, first (saved), last (ie second/unsaved), same day.
    Not remotely the same day. You do have the two resurrections correct other wise.

    And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

    He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    Are you saying the last day is 1000 years + long.
    No. The last day of this age, the last day of the millennial age, and the last day of the GWTJ before the NHNE are all last days of time periods.


    Again the harvest occurs for the same time for the saved and unsaved.
    Nope. The saved are harvested first, this is the resurrection and the rapture, and the unsaved harvested for wrath. After a thousand years there will be the GWTJ where the tares are harvested and burned, the LOF. The Saved will be harvested to the "barn" which is symbolic of the NHNE.


    Also we have this happening before the 1000 years as well. Note the unsaved cast into the fire BEFORE the 1000 years!
    Nope, not even Satan is cast into the LOF before the thousand years.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    So who comes up from the pit shown in Rev 11 and rev 17?
    It's Satan but he wasn't imprisoned in the pit. That only happens after Christ returns. An open pit means Satan can enter and leave it...that happens before his thousand year imprisonment and is in relation to the GT. His fallen angels and evil spirits and demons etc were imprisoned in the pit but it's opened before the GT begins. Evil things imprisoned in pit before the GT, then it's opened to release them. Later after the GT, the pit is opened again and satan is cast into it. It's a pattern of locking evil in, then releasing it.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffweeder View Post
    Yes, with all power , signs and false wonders and with all the deception of wickedness.
    satan cannot go forth in that manner until the appointed time....,so he must be restrained NOW from doing so right...


    6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
    The actual wording is "the mystery of lawlessness", this is what is restrained, the mystery. As soon as the restrainer is removed, then there is a revealing of lawlessness, because the man of lawlessness is revealed. People fail to see that contrast, somehow thinking that lawlessness is being constrained, when it's obviously the revealing of the lawlessness that is being constrained. Can you fault that logic?

    Now I do admit that there is this sudden burst of evil during that last period, which does also hint at sin being constrained earlier. But just because there is this contrast doesn't by default mean that Satan is in a pit.

    Rev 12 brings clarity, placing the fall of Satan after a period of martyrdom of the church, followed by a 1260 day period of wrath. The text itself is showing you that while Satan is focussed on accusing the church (and in so doing, prolong his lifespan) his wrath is less intense. But when he loses his place in the heavenlies and is cast to earth for a short period, then his wrath increases for that 1260 day period in Rev 12.

    Why default to a pit, when the Bible says our current fight is against evil powers in the heavenlies?

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