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Thread: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

  1. #271
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    The conditions of Rev 21/22 match the world after the millennium, not the world within the millennium. It is a new set of conditions unknown before, no death, no sea (I assume they mean no Mediterranean, it was simply known as the sea)
    I would agree with what you wrote except with maybe the part about the Mediterranean ...


    And then we have ...

    Revelation 21

    22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

    23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

    24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

    25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;

    26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;

    27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lambís book of life.


    Revelation 22

    1 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

    2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

    4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

    5 And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  2. #272
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Jesus said the "heaven and earth shall pass away". I'm pretty sure even though ancient Greek had no atomic table back then. I am pretty sure Jesus was up-to-date on all these theories and by no stretch of the imagination was down playing the severity of the destruction that will be.

    Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    Sure, as I said the word ge means land /ground

    Land and sky will pass away. Imagine rolling dust clouds leaving a new look, of a completely different atmosphere.

    The concept of a new planet was only introduced the last 200 years, since the word "earth" changed its meaning. Before that the KJV was correct, back then the word earth did mean "ground"

    As Jesus said, ground and sky would pass away.

  3. #273
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I would agree with what you wrote except with maybe the part about the Mediterranean ...


    And then we have ...

    Revelation 21

    22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

    23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

    24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

    25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;

    26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;

    27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lambís book of life.


    Revelation 22

    1 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

    2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

    4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

    5 And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
    Exactly, so whether we are premill or a mill, we agree that is the final situation. The blessed New Jerusalem

  4. #274
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    Jesus said the "heaven and earth shall pass away". I'm pretty sure even though ancient Greek had no atomic table back then. I am pretty sure Jesus was up-to-date on all these theories and by no stretch of the imagination was down playing the severity of the destruction that will be.

    Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
    There will be a new heaven and a new earth ...

    And we are a new creation/creature ... Paul speaks about that ... so how does that all work together ...

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  5. #275
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    I would agree with what you wrote except with maybe the part about the Mediterranean ...


    And then we have ...

    Revelation 21

    22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

    23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.

    24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.

    25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;

    26 and they will bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it;

    27 and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lambís book of life.


    Revelation 22

    1 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

    2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;

    4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.

    5 And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
    If you read Genesis 1, the oceans existed first, before dry land and seas appeared on day 3. Seas are specifically sections of water separated by landmasses. We use the same word "sea" for the ocean, and smaller seas. I doubt the new world of Rev 21/22 will lack any ocean. I guess we will see.

  6. #276
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    If you read Genesis 1, the oceans existed first, before dry land and seas appeared on day 3. Seas are specifically sections of water separated by landmasses. We use the same word "sea" for the ocean, and smaller seas. I doubt the new world of Rev 21/22 will lack any ocean. I guess we will see.
    Yes seems there is a lot that "we will see" for now we see dimly ... we should all keep this in mind ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  7. #277
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Exactly, so whether we are premill or a mill, we agree that is the final situation. The blessed New Jerusalem
    One thing I find interesting here ... is the tree of life that is yielding fruit for the healing of the "nations" ... and I think we both have agreed this is after the millenium ... so seems to me we would need to ask why is this needed ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  8. #278
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    There will be a new heaven and a new earth ...

    And we are a new creation/creature ... Paul speaks about that ... so how does that all work together ...

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
    Our core/soul remains the same, so it's the outside/housing that is transformed. You could apply that to the ground/land as well. It's foundations remain the same as the Bible promises, yet the outer surface undergoes renewal. Partial at the second coming (a transforming /life giving river flows from the sanctified Jerusalem as per Ezekiel 47 and Zech 14 in a world with surviving nations, a temple, and seas, and some death.

    And there is a more complete transformation when the NJ comes down, the life giving river flows out of the NJ in a world of no death, no sea, no temple.

    Without referring to Rev 20, we can see a blessed time period after the second coming, followed by a different even more blessed period.

  9. #279
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    One thing I find interesting here ... is the tree of life that is yielding fruit for the healing of the "nations" ... and I think we both have agreed this is after the millenium ... so seems to me we would need to ask why is this needed ...
    Very true, maybe our resurrection bodies don't always heal that quickly. Any ideas?

  10. #280

    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    There will be a new heaven and a new earth ...

    And we are a new creation/creature ... Paul speaks about that ... so how does that all work together ...

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
    I do not know if we will be on this earth or not.

    God was able to create the heaven and earth and all things therein, from nothing in 7 days. He was able to form Adam from the dust. And to from Eve from a rib of Adam.

    God is able to resurrect our dead bodies from the dust. Then I am pretty sure he can resurrect the earth, even if it is explodes into outer space.

    But I do believe it will be new or a resurrected form and not merely an overlay.

  11. #281
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by Christinme View Post
    Yes seems there is a lot that "we will see" for now we see dimly ... we should all keep this in mind ...
    True, you seem to like to emphasize the uncertainties, sure, I agree that we can't know it all during this age.

  12. #282
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by randyk View Post
    What it says, Christin, is that once we shed these mortal bodies we are *naked!* This means that we will not be clothed again with a body until the resurrection, when we receive new immortal bodies.

    And that takes place at the 1st Resurreciton, Rev 20. This is at the end of the age, which requires that all who have died in the past will remain "unclothed" until the last day of the age and the return of Christ. That's my argument.

    "For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

    Is this not an indication that when "our house is torn down" we will be without a "tent," ie naked? We wish to be clothed, and not unclothed, or without a body. But we don't receive new immortal bodies until the resurrection. So what happens to all those who have shed their "tents" in the past, who were saints of God? They either are naked or they receive some temporary covering, though not bodies. I prefer to believe they receive white robes until they are properly clothed with new immortal bodies.
    You say it means they are naked OR they receive some temporary covering ...

    There is a lot of different interpretations of this ... some saying we aren't actually naked and some saying we are until the resurrection ...

    https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_corinthians/5-3.htm

    Anyways as I said earlier ... I am not convinced that we will be disembodied souls when we die ... and I really don't know if we want to continue this here ... if at all ...

    I am not saying I am convinced that we won't be disembodied souls ... I am just saying I am not convinced that we will be disembodied souls ...

    That which I don't know for sure I rather not put forward as that I do know it for sure ...

    I lean towards believing that we won't be disembodied souls ...

    I look at the transfiguration and wonder about that ... and other things ... so like I said I am not convinced that we will be disemboded souls when we leave this earthly tent ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  13. #283
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    True, you seem to like to emphasize the uncertainties, sure, I agree that we can't know it all during this age.
    Yes I do ... there is very little I know for certain ... and to know what you know and to know what you don't know, I think is the start of wisdom ... and well to say one knows something for certain that they don't ... not so wise ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  14. #284
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    Without referring to Rev 20, we can see a blessed time period after the second coming, followed by a different even more blessed period.
    I'm not so sure of this ... obviously ... since I lean towards amil/postmil understanding ...
    ***
    Lead me in Your truth and teach me,
    For You are the God of my salvation;
    On You I wait all the day.

    Psalms 25:5
    ***

  15. #285
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    Re: MILLENIUM: Future, not present

    Quote Originally Posted by TMarcum View Post
    I do not know if we will be on this earth or not.

    God was able to create the heaven and earth and all things therein, from nothing in 7 days. He was able to form Adam from the dust. And to from Eve from a rib of Adam.

    God is able to resurrect our dead bodies from the dust. Then I am pretty sure he can resurrect the earth, even if it is explodes into outer space.

    But I do believe it will be new or a resurrected form and not merely an overlay.
    How then do you interpret this, if it's not merely an overlay?

    Micah 6:2 listen, you everlasting foundations of the earth.

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