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Thread: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

  1. #76
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    There is nothing 'moot' about the fact that scripture (Isaiah 65:20; Rev 20:8) says that mortals will live and repopulate the earth in the Millennium. Unless Ross is Mid-trib who believe we are presently living in the '1000 years', otherwise it is folly to doubt that the '1000 years' will start after Jesus returns and defeats the AC.
    My point was that it would be moot from Ross' perspective since he doesn't agree there is a thousand period after the 2nd coming. So I'm not saying the point is moot, but that from his perspective it would be.

  2. #77
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    Try Isaiah 65:20....
    Does that mean everyone though? For example, even though Adam lived almost a thousand years, not everyone else almost lived a thousand years as well. The point being, even if some of that is true about some of them, that doesn't necessarily mean it is true about all of them, in regards to Isaiah 65:20.

  3. #78
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post
    But there is................

    Rev 20

    Little season

    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    (till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.)

    Battle

    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

    Second coming

    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    Notice where "they" came from. Direction is "up" from the "breadth of the earth' ie beneath the earth. The camp of the saints and the beloved city is a picture of the armies upon Jerusalem (Babylon). And the fire down from God is the return of Christ.


    Prior to Rev 20 we have the same events. Little season, battle, and fire come down from heaven

    Little season

    Rev 6
    11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Battle - devils/gog and magog/whole earth/fire

    Rev 16
    13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


    Ez 38
    16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
    17 Thus saith the Lord God; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?
    18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.
    19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

    Fire from heaven

    2 Thess 1
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Rev 19
    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire,

    So yes there is the second coming in Rev 20. Surely these events do not happen twice.
    Your points appear valid, I will give you that. But even so, the 42 month reign of the beast has to occur during satan's little in order for a position such as yours to even work. Rev 20:4 and Rev 13 prove that the 42 month reign can't happen during satan's little season because it is already fulfilled and in the past before satan even has his little season.

  4. #79
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    The remnant of Israel in the end times refer to those who will be saved. And that implies they will come to faith in Christ. There is no other way they can be saved without accepting Christ. I still can't find scriptural support for your belief that unsaved nations will be graded according to behaviour.
    I gave verses that showed that God destroys nations according to behavior. Those verses exist in my previous post.

    There is the saved remnant of Israel who rise up to be with the Lord forever, and the unsaved remnant of Israel who inherit the earthly Jerusalem as per Ezekiel 40-48.

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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I gave verses that showed that God destroys nations according to behavior. Those verses exist in my previous post.

    There is the saved remnant of Israel who rise up to be with the Lord forever, and the unsaved remnant of Israel who inherit the earthly Jerusalem as per Ezekiel 40-48.
    1. I didn't see the passages you referred to.
    2. In the eschaton, contextually, there is no such thing as "unsaved remnant". By connotation, the term remnant denotes, survivor, saved. And since 'end times' is about Jesus Christ' return and judgment, ergo a remnant must be of faith in Christ.

  6. #81
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivalee View Post
    1. I didn't see the passages you referred to.
    2. In the eschaton, contextually, there is no such thing as "unsaved remnant". By connotation, the term remnant denotes, survivor, saved. And since 'end times' is about Jesus Christ' return and judgment, ergo a remnant must be of faith in Christ.
    The word remnant can apply to the remnant of mortal survivors regathered to Israel

  7. #82
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by DurbanDude View Post
    I agree with this last statement.

    Regarding national destinies, Zech 14 does refer to good nations and bad nations. So these unsaved nations can certainly be graded according to their behavior.

    Although Israel is not all saved, those unsaved mortal survivors are essentially a strongly filtered remnant. Filtered for over 3000 years of just a remnant being allowed to survive, what we see now is a remnant of a remnant of a remnant.

    The Exodus, Edom, Babylon etc are all examples that God has no compunction against removing a particularly badly behaved nation, nations are judged on their behavior.

    Psalm 79 Pour out your wrath on the nations
    that do not acknowledge you,
    on the kingdoms
    that do not call on your name;
    7 for they have devoured Jacob
    and devastated his homeland.

    Jeremiah 10 Pour out your wrath on the nations
    that do not acknowledge you,
    on the peoples who do not call on your name.
    For they have devoured Jacob;
    they have devoured him completely
    and destroyed his homeland.

    Jeremiah 25:15 Take from my hand this cup filled with the wine of my wrath and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it.

    Micah 5 I will uproot from among you your Asherah poles when I demolish your cities. I will take vengeance in anger and wrath on the nations that have not obeyed me.

    Edom will have a particularly bad destiny in the future: Isaiah 34
    For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
    a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause.
    9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch,
    her dust into burning sulfur;
    her land will become blazing pitch!
    10 It will not be quenched night or day;
    its smoke will rise forever.


    Certainly God has a history of the rise and fall of nations according to national corporate behavior. The surviving nations without their armies, and the Jewish remnant will give the new world a headstart on morality, with the saints ruling and judging over them.
    Trivalee, I reposted my previous post so you can see the verses again. Jeremiah is told only certain nations drink of wrath.

    Edom has a particularly bad destiny.

    Psalm79/ Jer 10: Wrath comes on nations that do not acknowledge God.

    Micah 5 disobedient nations experience wrath.

    Other than salvation, nations have a national destiny.

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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by divaD View Post
    Your points appear valid, I will give you that. But even so, the 42 month reign of the beast has to occur during satan's little in order for a position such as yours to even work. Rev 20:4 and Rev 13 prove that the 42 month reign can't happen during satan's little season because it is already fulfilled and in the past before satan even has his little season.
    No. I agree with you that the 42 month reign and the little season are separate.

    1260 ----- little season ------ 1335.

    So the little season is correctly less than 90 days the duration of a season.

    Rev 13

    The first beast reigns for 42 months, the second beast for the little season. 75 days.

    Rev 20

    The 1000 years metaphor represents the 42 months, then the little season

  9. #84
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    Re: No mortals survive the second coming able to populate a millennium

    Quote Originally Posted by ross3421 View Post

    Second coming

    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    That is God the Father killing people with fire from heaven and it's not the first time. Jesus isn't even mentioned so, no, this is not the second coming. That is found in Rev 19 when he comes down from heaven and defeats the armies of the beast and zero fire is used.


    Prior to Rev 20 we have the same events. Little season, battle, and fire come down from heaven
    No, the little season of Satan is not prior to Rev 20, nor is fire used nor mentioned at Armageddon.




    Fire from heaven

    2 Thess 1
    7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    In flaming fire means the means of travel. It isn't "using flaming fire" and we know this because Rev 19 is the eye witness account of the second coming and the battle and no fire is there at all.

    2Ki_1:10* And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

    Fire from heaven killing people isn't a coming, it's just fire sent to kill people.

    2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
    2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

    G5395
    f??´?
    phlox
    flox
    From a primary f?e´?? phlegoŻ (to “flash” or “flame”); a blaze: - flame (-ing).

    G4442
    p???
    pur
    poor
    A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.


    In flaming fire is regarding Christ not the unsaved. Flaming means a flash and fire is specifically lightning according to the Strongs. So Christ comes In a flash of lightning to arrive and take vengeance (the sword of his mouth Rev 19) on the unsaved and that shouldn't be surprising because we were told that before:

    Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.



    This denotes the speed of his return like a flash of lightning. It has nothing to do with using fire or lightning against the unsaved. To think that is to misread the verses.


    Just read Rev 19 where the battle is described and you will see ZERO fire or lightning used to kill anyone.

    2Th 1:7-8

    And to you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels In A FLASH OF LIGHTNING
    taking vengeance on them that know not God and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ



    Rev 19
    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire,

    So yes there is the second coming in Rev 20. Surely these events do not happen twice.
    You are misusing this verse because fire in his eyes is not killing people with fire.
    James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

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