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Thread: Revival praying

  1. #31
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    Re: Revival praying

    There are Biblical references to corporate prayer, most notably in Acts, e.g Acts 4:24-31 and Acts 12:12.
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by teddyv View Post
    There are Biblical references to corporate prayer, most notably in Acts, e.g Acts 4:24-31 and Acts 12:12.
    Actually they were worshiping in Acts 4:24-31, not praying.

    Also, the other scripture that you referenced: Acts 12:12 they were indeed praying corporately just like the other examples in the book of Acts that were brought up earlier here on the thread.
    But, prayers of any sized group of believers when praying in accord with one another (corporate prayer) is not an indication that they were being led by a man or woman in that prayer, nor an indication that the congregation's prayers were publicly-vocal.
    ....I propose that all prayers of christian mentioned in NT scripture were all led internally in each individual by expressed desires of the Holy Spirit within them. With one exception that I can recall: when Jesus instructed His disciples to wait and pray in the upper room for the arrival of the sent-comforter/Holy Spirit.

    You maybe being tripped into assuming just by the use of the word corporate-prayer that it is indicating the prayer is led by an individual just because the prayers in accord with one another.
    The precedent set by most modern western churches of man leading the corporate prayers of a congregation are to blame for that assumption.
    That precedent is not found in most of the rest of the world's modern churches, apart from our modern western churches.
    ....Corporate prayer in no way indicates the prayer is being led by man, even when the example of corporate praying is found in NT scripture.
    And IMO that said precedent is a shame, even a lukewarm-blemish for reasons that have already been expressed in post #26 here on this thread.


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  3. #33
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Corporate prayer in no way indicates the prayer is being led by man
    But it also doesn't exclude those situations. Offhand here's an example with Joshua and his elders:

    Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the Lord, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads. And Joshua said, "Alas, Sovereign Lord, why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us?" (Joshua 7)

    That's clearly corporate prayer where one person speaks representing the congregation as the whole in prayer.
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    But it also doesn't exclude those situations. Offhand here's an example with Joshua and his elders:


    Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the Lord, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads. And Joshua said, "Alas, Sovereign Lord, why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us?" (Joshua 7)


    That's clearly corporate prayer where one person speaks representing the congregation as the whole in prayer.
    Hi Aviyah.
    I cannot disagree with what you've shared about Joshua and the Elders in the old covenant era of God's plan of salvation.

    But, that story of Joshua only represents the old covenant era of God's plan of salvation, an era when the Holy Spirit only came upon certain men (usually only kings, judges, priest and prophets) but never did indwell them since after Adam and Eve.
    But as for now in our current era of God's plan of salvation (the new covenant) the Holy Spirit will indwell us now, He will inspires us from within, not from without because He actually dwells inside of us now.
    Not only that but also will indwell 'all' men who will receive God's Lamb.

    ....Hence I still stand firm on biblical reasons for my preference to not have my prayers led by man, but would rather have my prayer inspired from the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of me.

    What I mean by all of that is, I do not deny the power of what my faith in Jesus Christ affords to me.
    Joshua and the Elders were not afforded that same privilege of having God's Spirit indwell them such as we have now.
    I am always going to take full advantage of all of what God affords to us in His new covenant.
    I'll not only take full advantage of that new covenant, but will also proclaim it loudly to whoever watches my faith being applied to my entire life lived, applying all of what Jesus has done for me.
    (אני לא מכחיש את כוחו של רוח האל השוכן בי.)

    So, although I 100% agree with what you've shared with me about Joshua and his men's prayer there, the point you made is moot as an argument against my reasons for standing firm on only praying through what the Holy Spirit inspires from within me, by not allowing my prayers to be led by man.



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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Hannah's story/prayer is what lead me into valuing prayer more also! That's why I had to put it as my signature My relationship with God skyrocketed when I began to seek and spend time with Him personally. No amount of learning or reading ever compares to prayer. And, I've heard that used as a cliche many times - but Hannah is really the perfect example of what prayer is. Just genuine, heartfelt, unfiltered, knowing every situation and struggle is under God's authority. Then how the gospel comes into the picture. Ugh, I could go on this soapbox for hours, lol.
    I would like to hear what you have to say about Hannah. Please, if you have time, do share.
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
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  6. #36
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Glorious View Post
    Effective prayer is not about how long one prays, but in how fervent (intense) the prayer is. And, an intense prayer is not about how emotional or how loud one prays during a vigil night, but in how the will of God is sought after or touched in prayer.
    Love the part about how prayer is the will of God being sought after and touched up! Great point!

    Spiritual poverty? Does Bakht Singh know and understand that, pertaining to the kingdom of God, blessed are the poor in Spirit?
    I would softly suggest that perhaps, Jesus and Brother Singh were speaking in two different context. Brother Singh, seemed to suggest, IMO, that given all the wealth we have in Christ, that we are acting and behaving as though we are paupers and not making use of all that He has afforded us! While Jesus was speaking against pride, thinking we are something, spiritually, when without Him, we are nothing. The way I read it, brother Singh was saying "Look at all we have in Christ! Let us walk worthy of our calling making full use of all we have and are in Him!"

    God bless!

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  7. #37
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Hi Hawkman, thank you for pointing this out.
    I thought about those examples after I posted, but I still stand firm on prayers are for closets/secret/alone-solitude.
    My prime example will be Jesus's prayer life recorded in our bibles.
    Brother JL, love the handle. I think you are making a very valid point here about the importance of a personal prayer life. I would also like to suggest, that there might be a difference between corporate prayer and individual prayers. It seems to me, that when Jesus was speaking of the closet, He was addressing something the people had seen the pharisees do... pray in public, personally, for the praise and approval of man.

    Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

    In other places we see how the Pharisees, who were considered (at least by themselves) to be the spiritual leaders of the day, would pray in the streets to be seen. Jesus was teaching us here, IMO, about how our private prayer life, should indeed be private. But it doesn't seem to address any kind of coporate prayer meeting in this passage.

    You've already discussed other types of corporate prayer in this thread so I'll not repeat them all. But one of my favorites is how the entire body came together to pray, corporately, for Peter.

    Acts 12:4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people. 5 So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.

    We see from this passage, that the local church was praying fervently for Peter. But it is only later, that we see they were doing it together, corporately.

    Acts 12:12 And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying. 13 When he knocked at the door of the gate, a servant-girl named Rhoda came to answer. 14 When she recognized Peter's voice, because of her joy she did not open the gate, but ran in and announced that Peter was standing in front of the gate. 15 They said to her, "You are out of your mind!" But she kept insisting that it was so. They kept saying, "It is his angel." 16 But Peter continued knocking; and when they had opened the door, they saw him and were amazed. 17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had led him out of the prison. And he said, "Report these things to James and the brethren." Then he left and went to another place.

    So we see, that God answered the corporate gathering of prayer in a mighty and miraculous way. He blessed it. As for how they were praying, God doesn't tell us. But this we know, all were praying. Were all praying together, out loud at once? I don't know. Were they taking turns, each praying out loud in his turn? I don't know. Were they all praying silently together? I don't know. What we do know, is they were together, corporately, and praying fervently!

    God bless and thank you for putting an emphasis on personal prayer time. Your posts makes me ponder... do we as a body spend more time praying with others, or more time praying alone with just "me and God"? It is a worthy question. I think, your posts make clear, that scripture paints a habit of prayer that should be far more weighted towards time alone with Him in prayer than a corporate prayer. But I do believe that corporate prayer has a mighty place in the kingdom of God.

    God bless and keep on keeping on!

    Mark
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

  8. #38
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    But it also doesn't exclude those situations. Offhand here's an example with Joshua and his elders:

    Then Joshua tore his clothes and fell facedown to the ground before the ark of the Lord, remaining there till evening. The elders of Israel did the same, and sprinkled dust on their heads. And Joshua said, "Alas, Sovereign Lord, why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us?" (Joshua 7)

    That's clearly corporate prayer where one person speaks representing the congregation as the whole in prayer.
    Indeed! Didn't Jesus do something similar when he blessed the bread before breaking it and passing it out?
    Matt 9:13
    13 "But go and learn what this means: ' I DESIRE COMPASSION,AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
    NASU

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    I still stand firm on biblical reasons for my preference to not have my prayers led by man, but would rather have my prayer inspired from the Holy Spirit that dwells inside of me.
    I understand why that would be an issue, but have you also considered that there is one Spirit and He cannot contradict Himself? So if someone in the congregation is praying in the Spirit, would their prayer not agree with the Spirit in you? And if your church body has been baptized in the Spirit, and one person prays in the Spirit, shouldn't this be the prayer of the whole church? If God searches the heart and knows the mind of the Spirit, there should be no difference between the prayer of your heart and the prayer of the body - assuming both are genuine.

    Also consider 1 Corinthians 14, which I think speaks to this, regardless of your opinion on tongues. The larger issue is the matter of using "personal devotion/prayer" to encourage the church:

    Anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort [...] The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

    If I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? [...] Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? [...] Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. [...] I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

    Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
    (1 Corinthians 14)

    So I would say that corporate prayer primarily functions as a means of edification of the body, who all share the Spirit. Someone who "leads" a prayer is giving thanks or prophesying or petitioning, where everyone can join in agreement and understanding. I think this has always been true regardless of OT/NT, which is why I brought up Joshua.
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    I understand why that would be an issue, but have you also considered that there is one Spirit and He cannot contradict Himself? So if someone in the congregation is praying in the Spirit, would their prayer not agree with the Spirit in you? And if your church body has been baptized in the Spirit, and one person prays in the Spirit, shouldn't this be the prayer of the whole church? If God searches the heart and knows the mind of the Spirit, there should be no difference between the prayer of your heart and the prayer of the body - assuming both are genuine.
    Oh yes, I have considered that.
    What still over-rides that possibility in my thinking though is: scripture says that I cannot even know my own heart's motives, so how can I know another mans heart being pure or in-tune with God's will enough to lead me in prayer ? <---hypothetical question, I do not expect an answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Also consider 1 Corinthians 14, which I think speaks to this, regardless of your opinion on tongues. The larger issue is the matter of using "personal devotion/prayer" to encourage the church:
    Anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort [...] The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

    If I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? [...] Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? [...] Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. [...] I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my understanding.

    Otherwise when you are praising God in the Spirit, how can someone else, who is now put in the position of an inquirer, say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since they do not know what you are saying? You are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.
    (1 Corinthians 14)
    As for 1 Corinthians 14 I do not see prayer as a way to encourage the church, encouraging the church to me means building up/equipping the church, comforting or assisting the church, contending for/defending the church, offering my substance or giving of my life to the church, or even attempting to correct the church if need be.
    ....But as for a christain's prayer life, it is intercessory on the churches behalf, it is between God and man, it's certainly not between man and the church.
    Prayers are sent from us to God in heaven above, not sent from us to one another.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    So I would say that corporate prayer primarily functions as a means of edification of the body, who all share the Spirit. Someone who "leads" a prayer is giving thanks or prophesying or petitioning, where everyone can join in agreement and understanding. I think this has always been true regardless of OT/NT, which is why I brought up Joshua.
    When I hear or use the term "corporate prayer", that to me does not exclude silent individual prayers while in a group of other other silently praying individuals.
    ....When I hear or use the term "praying in one accord" that to me means the Holy Spirit expresses God's will to be prayed for from within each individual's heart, no matter how many individuals are gathered together to pray, the Holy Spirit keeps their prayers in one accord, in unity as to what they are all praying for being within the expressed will of God.

    I have no issues allowing a pastor or a deacon to lead me into fresh things from scripture to hear and consider, I also no issue with them offering me personal counsel or advice either.
    But, depending on a man or woman to lead my prayer life, NO, because for me that would be like me denying the Power of the Holy Spirit that dwells in me to align my prayers with God's will in heaven.
    I actually intentionally do not pray for things for myself because I am concerned that what I pray for there has selfish roots.
    ....Look, I trust no man to represent my reborn thoughts nor my will nor my desires, to God, ever.
    But, I have to trust a man to be able to operate functionally within the body of Christ. That functionality does not include my prayer life, prayer is a closet thing for me. Not meaning that I need to run into a closet to pray, no, I can pray in my virtual-closet in public among other individuals praying beside me.
    ....As a shrewd child I prayed silently with others in school while we could have been arrested for doing so and our parents fined. <--- look, we were praying corporately !

    In summary: Maybe just a simple agreement on definition of terms here(corporate prayer and prayer in one accord) would solve our perceived disagreement ?
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
    Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    I would like to hear what you have to say about Hannah. Please, if you have time, do share.
    Sure, I'll make a thread about it when I get a chance!
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    I do not see prayer as a way to encourage the church
    Personal prayer, no, but edification (can include encouragement) is the very point of corporate prayer - as we are all in the Spirit together. Obviously there is power in personal prayer, and even personal prayer in groups where no one is speaking. Of course you know, "where two or more are gathered there I am also." However, I don't think you're grasping Paul's point in distinguishing personal devotion and devotion that edifies others:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    In other words, yes of course in silent prayers behind closed doors, you grow closer to God. But just as speaking in tongues without an interpreter has no edification, corporate prayer without any "understanding" has no edification. Because as Paul said, no one can say "Amen" to your inward thanksgiving. No one can rejoice with you or mourn with you if you choose not to translate your Spiritual prayer into a prayer of understanding. To cite Hannah's story again, in fact she was doing exactly this at first - praying in her spirit only. And Eli, though he was another believer, misunderstood her behavior as being due to drunkenness until she explained. Then Eli was able to bless her and she thanked him.

    Depending on a man or woman to lead my prayer life, NO,
    Agreed, but corporate prayer should not be the extent of your prayer life. Perhaps you're rejecting something Biblical because it is misused?

    I actually intentionally do not pray for things for myself
    Oh boy, you're missing out on so much, then.

    What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? (Luke 11)
    「耶和華聖潔無比,獨一無二,沒有磐石像我們的上帝。
    撒母耳記上 (1 Samuel) 2:2

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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Brother JL, love the handle. I think you are making a very valid point here about the importance of a personal prayer life. I would also like to suggest, that there might be a difference between corporate prayer and individual prayers. It seems to me, that when Jesus was speaking of the closet, He was addressing something the people had seen the pharisees do... pray in public, personally, for the praise and approval of man.

    Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

    In other places we see how the Pharisees, who were considered (at least by themselves) to be the spiritual leaders of the day, would pray in the streets to be seen. Jesus was teaching us here, IMO, about how our private prayer life, should indeed be private. But it doesn't seem to address any kind of coporate prayer meeting in this passage.
    I understand what you are saying, but Jesus's commentary-rebuke aimed at the pharisees hypocritical loud public prayers is not the only scriptural instructions (and examples) on how to pray or not to pray.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    You've already discussed other types of corporate prayer in this thread so I'll not repeat them all. But one of my favorites is how the entire body came together to pray, corporately, for Peter.

    Acts 12:4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people. 5 So Peter was kept in the prison, but prayer for him was being made fervently by the church to God.
    Yes, I have already addressed this scriptural rebuttal posed by a different member on this same thread earlier, but I am happy to address it again:
    Yes 100%, it was corporate prayer for protection from imminent danger facing their brother Peter.
    Although, I do not see that example of those christain's corporate prayers as being led by a man or woman, nor public-vocal prayers either.
    ....Maybe when you have more time you can share with me why you do see that example of corporate prayer as being led by a man or woman, and or as being public-vocal prayers ?
    But, there is no doubt in my mind that the Holy Spirit did inspire those prayers in that example, evidenced by God's quick and miraculous response in remedying Peter's eminent danger.

    Or maybe I have just missed something in my recall of that particular story ? ...I have not looked it up to read before my response here.



    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    We see from this passage, that the local church was praying fervently for Peter. But it is only later, that we see they were doing it together, corporately.

    Acts 12:12 And when he realized this, he went to the house of Mary, the mother of John who was also called Mark, where many were gathered together and were praying. 13 When he knocked at the door of the gate, a servant-girl named Rhoda came to answer. 14 When she recognized Peter's voice, because of her joy she did not open the gate, but ran in and announced that Peter was standing in front of the gate. 15 They said to her, "You are out of your mind!" But she kept insisting that it was so. They kept saying, "It is his angel." 16 But Peter continued knocking; and when they had opened the door, they saw him and were amazed. 17 But motioning to them with his hand to be silent, he described to them how the Lord had led him out of the prison. And he said, "Report these things to James and the brethren." Then he left and went to another place.

    So we see, that God answered the corporate gathering of prayer in a mighty and miraculous way. He blessed it. As for how they were praying, God doesn't tell us. But this we know, all were praying. Were all praying together, out loud at once? I don't know. Were they taking turns, each praying out loud in his turn? I don't know. Were they all praying silently together? I don't know. What we do know, is they were together, corporately, and praying fervently!
    Corporate prayer, it seems to me that every time folks read that term on this thread they default assume and persistently hold on to it meaning an individual's prayers cannot be a corporate prayer just because that individual's words are not word for word copies of other individual's words praying beside him or her.

    When I hear or use the term "corporate prayer", that to me does not exclude silent individual prayers while in a group of other silently praying individuals.
    ....When I hear or use the term "praying in one accord" that to me means the Holy Spirit expresses God's will to be prayed for from within each individual's heart, no matter how many individuals are gathered together to pray, the Holy Spirit keeps their prayers in one accord, in unity as to what they are all praying for being within the expressed will of God.
    What I mean is, for me, what makes corporate prayer corporate (and in one accord): is the Holy Spirit's unity in what is being sought in prayer, not the words inside the prayers, but the aim and purpose of the prayers is what make's it a corporate prayer. (and in one accord/unity)
    I can see needing man to lead a physical-child's prayer life or a man leading very immature/new/young christian's prayer life too.
    But for me personally, No, absolutely not, I don't need man to lead my prayer life and will never have a man lead my prayer life.
    I brought enough oil with me, no need for me purchase any, thank you. (Matthew 25:1–13)

    So, I still will not allow a man to lead me in prayer when the Holy Spirit has already taken that position in my life, taken that position with legal God's word legitimacy.
    Brother Mark, for me it is denying the Power of the Holy Spirit for me to allow a man or a woman to lead my communication with my God in prayer.
    ....I am not making an effort to teach this stance to anyone, but only explaining the scriptural reasons for this being my stance.
    So really Brother Mark, I do not get the sugary-attractive attention given to my stance on this.
    Am I in danger with my stance of Holy Spirit having exclusive reign in my prayer life ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Mark View Post
    Your posts makes me ponder... do we as a body spend more time praying with others, or more time praying alone with just "me and God"? It is a worthy question. I think, your posts make clear, that scripture paints a habit of prayer that should be far more weighted towards time alone with Him in prayer than a corporate prayer. But I do believe that corporate prayer has a mighty place in the kingdom of God.
    That's fine and probably good, but my intention was not to bring attention to the differences of prayers in solitude and prayers in a group.
    I can be alone in prayer while side by side with my fellows also praying, praying silently helps a lot there though.

    Yeah again about corporate prayer, it seems to me that every time folks read that term on this thread they default assume and persistently hold on to it meaning an individual's prayers cannot be a corporate prayer just because that individual's words are not word for word copies of other's individual's words praying beside him or her.
    So, maybe an agreed upon definition of terms here of corporate prayers and prayers in one accord need to be defined and agreed upon.
    Because so far I see the folks who've responded to my expressed stance here as making large leaping assumptions about what I have been trying to express on this thread.
    Which doesn't offend me, but actually is an eye opener to how powerfully potent the curse of babel still operates on Earth today.
    Sorry, that last comment about babel slipped out of the arm-chair-linguist in me



    Thanks for the interaction Brother Mark.
    And God bless.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
    Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

  14. #44
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Aviyah View Post
    Personal prayer, no, but edification (can include encouragement) is the very point of corporate prayer - as we are all in the Spirit together. Obviously there is power in personal prayer, and even personal prayer in groups where no one is speaking. Of course you know, "where two or more are gathered there I am also." However, I don't think you're grasping Paul's point in distinguishing personal devotion and devotion that edifies others:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified.

    In other words, yes of course in silent prayers behind closed doors, you grow closer to God. But just as speaking in tongues without an interpreter has no edification, corporate prayer without any "understanding" has no edification. Because as Paul said, no one can say "Amen" to your inward thanksgiving. No one can rejoice with you or mourn with you if you choose not to translate your Spiritual prayer into a prayer of understanding. To cite Hannah's story again, in fact she was doing exactly this at first - praying in her spirit only. And Eli, though he was another believer, misunderstood her behavior as being due to drunkenness until she explained. Then Eli was able to bless her and she thanked him.

    Agreed, but corporate prayer should not be the extent of your prayer life. Perhaps you're rejecting something Biblical because it is misused?

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so much, then.

    What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? (Luke 11)
    Okay, I am convinced now, where as before I only assumed from our other discussion on a separate thread here. Convinced now that you only see what you are comfortable speaking to, you just cherry pick through what is shared with you like an ungrateful child on their birthday or christmas.

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so muchby allowing your fear(s) to cherry pick your way through life's opportunities of communication and commerce of ideas.


    Peace.
    Don't seek too much knowledge. You just may be putting more weight on your shoulders than you're able to bare.
    Let God be the one to decide how quickly you grow

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Re: Revival praying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder View Post
    Okay, I am convinced now, where as before I only assumed from our other discussion on a separate thread here. Convinced now that you only see what you are comfortable speaking to, you just cherry pick through what is shared with you like an ungrateful child on their birthday or christmas.

    Oh boy, you're missing out on so muchby allowing your fear(s) to cherry pick your way through life's opportunities of communication and commerce of ideas.

    Peace.
    I apologize for any miscommunication. I've read each of your posts fully and tried to address your issues with Scripture. If you wouldn't mind replying more specifically why 1 Corinthians 14 doesn't apply to the point you're raising, I may have a better understanding of your position. What I am hearing from you is:

    1) Corporate prayer does not mean having one person pray vocally in a group. (post #32)
    2) Spirit-lead prayer in a group setting (aka, praying in one accord), is different from (or inferior to) being lead in prayer by one person. (post #34)
    3) Prayer is not a method of building up the church. (post #40)

    Therefore, though we are in agreement about the operation of corporate prayer (that it's a matter of heart than exact words spoken), we disagree on the usefulness or validity of one spokesperson during the "corporate prayer" (term pending contest).

    So, I provided Biblical support for distinguishing Spirit-lead, inward, or wordless prayer from spoken, outward, understandable prayer with 1 Corinthians 14. I've also given two instances demonstrating that my usage of 1 Corinthians for the topic is appropriate (Joshua, Hannah).

    Would you mind clarifying why these verses are not pertinent to the discussion? Or if they are pertinent, how am I misusing them?:

    I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my understanding [...] When you are praising God in the Spirit [...] you are giving thanks well enough, but no one else is edified. (v. 15-17)

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