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Thread: 1 John 5:16 says NOT to pray for some sinners....this confuses me.

  1. #1

    1 John 5:16 says NOT to pray for some sinners....this confuses me.

    1John 5:16 says NOT to pray or interceed for people that sin unto death or unrepentant sinners.


    This just seems wrong not to pray for them. What is your opinion please??
    Mighty is our King!
    Ruler of Everything!
    I could and will sing of HIS Glory forever.
    I cherish THE COMFORTER
    FATHER PLEASE SOFTEN THE HEARTS OF THE LOST.
    I WANT LESS OF ME AND MORE OF YOU.

  2. #2
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    I think you have misinterpreted this verse:

    1 John 5:16
    16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

    This verse is not saying that you shouldn't pray for anyone.

    These verses are telling us to pray for someone who has committed a sin that does not lead to death and God will give him life. The bolded sentence is saying that if you pray for someone whose sin leads to death that God will not give them life. It is only clarifying the fact that a prayer for a sin that leads to death will not give them life. Only a prayer for someone whose sin does not lead to death will be granted life.

  3. #3
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    Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    It can also tie in with:

    Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.


    2Pe 2:20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
    2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
    2Pe 2:22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

    I won't pretend to have it all figured out as I was recently "rended" in a big way for casting my pearls.
    yours in, of and by Christ, Christopher
    _____________________________________________
    The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
    and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
    and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
    and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:6

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscchica09 View Post
    I think you have misinterpreted this verse:

    1 John 5:16
    16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

    This verse is not saying that you shouldn't pray for anyone.

    These verses are telling us to pray for someone who has committed a sin that does not lead to death and God will give him life. The bolded sentence is saying that if you pray for someone whose sin leads to death that God will not give them life. It is only clarifying the fact that a prayer for a sin that leads to death will not give them life. Only a prayer for someone whose sin does not lead to death will be granted life.
    yes, that's what the OP was talking about. I gather the question asked was why shouldn't we even pray for the unrepentant sinner - for unrepented sin leads to death.
    yours in, of and by Christ, Christopher
    _____________________________________________
    The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
    and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
    and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
    and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:6

  5. #5
    Thanks for writing ChristopherE and Uscchica09.

    Have you a suggestion how to pray for the sinner on his way to death? Like for Our Father to soften his heart, his eyes, and do something drastic to turn him back unto the Lord? How do we continue to pray for those people we love so much and God keeps giving us forgiveness and compassion about???
    Mighty is our King!
    Ruler of Everything!
    I could and will sing of HIS Glory forever.
    I cherish THE COMFORTER
    FATHER PLEASE SOFTEN THE HEARTS OF THE LOST.
    I WANT LESS OF ME AND MORE OF YOU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComeLordJesus View Post
    Thanks for writing ChristopherE and Uscchica09.

    Have you a suggestion how to pray for the sinner on his way to death? Like for Our Father to soften his heart, his eyes, and do something drastic to turn him back unto the Lord? How do we continue to pray for those people we love so much and God keeps giving us forgiveness and compassion about???
    Could you ask a harder question? heh

    If they are denying God, I have to say "don't". It's hard because we do have compassion, and that's great. I would say pray for yourself that God guide your actions so your life is a witness and glorifies God. However, you have to give that person over to God. If that person is going to be saved, he/she will be. In the meantime, your energies will only be wasted.

    I know how hard this is, and people might think me hardened or bitter for this answer, but it's the one I think lines up with the scripture, some of which I quoted above.
    yours in, of and by Christ, Christopher
    _____________________________________________
    The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
    and the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
    and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
    and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:6

  7. #7
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    1 John 5
    14And this is the confidence (the assurance, the privilege of boldness) which we have in Him: [we are sure] that if we ask anything (make any request) according to His will (in agreement with His own plan), He listens to and hears us.
    15And if (since) we [positively] know that He listens to us in whatever we ask, we also know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that we have [granted us as our present possessions] the requests made of Him.
    16If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
    17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin which does not [involve] death [that may be repented of and forgiven]. 18We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him].
    I looked at it in the amplified.. It seems that we cannot pray that they be forgivin but we can pray that they repent!

    Here is the commentary that I found on this chapter as well:

    The danger of being infected by false professors, and the dreadful punishment which shall be inflicted on them and their followers.



    Upon all this evidence, it is but right that we believe on the name of the Son of God. Believers have eternal life in the covenant of the gospel. Then let us thankfully receive the record of Scripture. Always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that our labour is not in vain in the Lord. The Lord Christ invites us to come to him in all circumstances, with our supplications and requests, notwithstanding the sin that besets us. Our prayers must always be offered in submission to
    the will of God. In some things they are speedily answered; in others they are granted in the best manner, though not as requested. We ought to pray for others, as well as for ourselves. There are sins that war against spiritual life in the soul, and the life above. We cannot pray that the sins of the impenitent and unbelieving should, while they are such, be forgiven them; or that mercy, which supposes the forgiveness of sins, should be granted to them, while they wilfully continue such. But we may pray for their repentance, for their being enriched with faith in Christ, and thereupon for all other saving mercies. We should pray for others, as well as for ourselves, beseeching the Lord to pardon and recover the fallen, as well as to relieve the tempted and afflicted. And let us be truly thankful that no sin, of which any one truly repents, is unto death. (1Jn 5:18-21)
    God's Blessings,
    Melanie

    Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

  8. #8
    1 John 5:16 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."
    _______________
    Some think John was refering to a sin "leading to physical death," but the immediate and larger context of the entire letter seems to indicate that it was spiritual death that he had in mind. So what is the sin leading to spiritual death? This has been debated for centuries. From our studies in the book of Hebrews, we know that the only unpardonable sin a Christian can commit is one of willfully and deliberately turning his back on Jesus after having reached a certain level of spiritual maturity. To pray for a person who has commited that sin is a waste of time, because "it is impossible to renew [him] again to repentance" (Heb 6:6). I conclude that the sin leading to death is apostasy by someone who has reached the spiritual level described in Hebrews 6:4-6.
    ______________________
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    Below I have listed other verses found in Scripture where the Lord's instructions are to not pray for others

    Jer 14:11 And Jehovah said unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.

    Jer 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee.

    Jer 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me because of their trouble.
    If you believe what you like in the gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. - Augustine

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorK View Post
    1 John 5:16 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."
    _______________
    Some think John was refering to a sin "leading to physical death," but the immediate and larger context of the entire letter seems to indicate that it was spiritual death that he had in mind. So what is the sin leading to spiritual death? This has been debated for centuries. From our studies in the book of Hebrews, we know that the only unpardonable sin a Christian can commit is one of willfully and deliberately turning his back on Jesus after having reached a certain level of spiritual maturity. To pray for a person who has commited that sin is a waste of time, because "it is impossible to renew [him] again to repentance" (Heb 6:6). I conclude that the sin leading to death is apostasy by someone who has reached the spiritual level described in Hebrews 6:4-6.
    ______________________
    (Your Best Year Yet! David S Kirkwood P. 636)
    I totally agree with the comments of the above reply

    Excellent
    If you believe what you like in the gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. - Augustine

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    Quote Originally Posted by DSK View Post
    Below I have listed other verses found in Scripture where the Lord's instructions are to not pray for others

    Jer 14:11 And Jehovah said unto me, Pray not for this people for their good.

    Jer 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear thee.

    Jer 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them; for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me because of their trouble.
    This is from the OT where the punishment for sins was much harsher, because we were seperated from God. With Jesus' sacrifice we can now be forgiven of our sins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ComeLordJesus View Post
    Thanks for writing ChristopherE and Uscchica09.

    Have you a suggestion how to pray for the sinner on his way to death? Like for Our Father to soften his heart, his eyes, and do something drastic to turn him back unto the Lord? How do we continue to pray for those people we love so much and God keeps giving us forgiveness and compassion about???
    You should never stop praying that someone will repent of their sins. Sometimes it will be years before a person is saved and sometimes they will never come to know Christ. But, your prayers are never in vain. You will be rewarded for the compassion you have in others and the hope you place in God.

    Here is some scripture that might help...

    1 Timothy 2:1-4
    1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

    8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.

    Ephesians 1:16-19a
    16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscchica09 View Post
    This is from the OT where the punishment for sins was much harsher, because we were seperated from God. With Jesus' sacrifice we can now be forgiven of our sins.
    I must pause to correct you there; AD and BC both, salvation is only through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Abraham was saved through faith just like you are, and punishment for sins has always been and will always be death. The only time when we see more or less 'severe' temporal punishments is when God is disciplining or judging, something that especially (I hesitate to say 'only') occurs when God's presence is manifestly tangible (Num 16, Acts 5, etc)

    If I were to hazard a guess, I should think that John is alluding to times future, when the Lord will explicitly tell us - as He told Jeremiah - not to pray for certain people. Like the Amorites of Genesis 15:16, their iniquity will have become complete. They will have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (Matt 12), they will have seared their consciences (1 Tim 4:2), they will have reached the pinnacle of the Psalm 2 reality of rage against God. Unless God tells you somebody has reached that point (and I shudder to imagine any individual who has), I would advise you to pray for anybody you know who is lost, unrepentant, or hostile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uscchica09 View Post
    This is from the OT where the punishment for sins was much harsher, because we were seperated from God. With Jesus' sacrifice we can now be forgiven of our sins.

    The main gist of my reply, was to show other examples from Scripture where the Lord specifically said not to pray for certain people. My reply didn't touch upon the topic of punishment.
    If you believe what you like in the gospel, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. - Augustine

  15. #15
    Like the Amorites of Genesis 15:16, their iniquity will have become complete. They will have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (Matt 12), they will have seared their consciences (1 Tim 4:2), they will have reached the pinnacle of the Psalm 2 reality of rage against God.

    Wow another verse similar to the one I had a question about. I understand.

    I thank you all for your responses and insights. I won't stop praying unless God does tell me NOT to do so. I can't know what God knows about other's hearts or souls.

    I thank God that HE has stirred-up a conscience in a person I have been praying for years. Now maybe salvation will be accepted soon with repentance and sorrow for his sins against God.

    Merry Christmas
    Mighty is our King!
    Ruler of Everything!
    I could and will sing of HIS Glory forever.
    I cherish THE COMFORTER
    FATHER PLEASE SOFTEN THE HEARTS OF THE LOST.
    I WANT LESS OF ME AND MORE OF YOU.

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