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Thread: Born Again.

  1. #1
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    Born Again.

    As far as I am concerned I have never approved of all we see defined as born again or physical acts in the church of being born again or some person versions of receiving the Holy Spirit and all that.

    Jesus used "born" for a reason.

    Being born is a process. Water breaks, contractions, move down the birth canal.

    Who knows how fast that can happen or could take hours.

    When we are "born again" I think this takes us a lifetime of birthing because there is so much of us to get out of the way and I think we really will be "born" like when our feet leave the birth canal is like when we die and leave our bodies.

    With some they mature quicker than others, there is no "program" or "formula."

    The two are comparable and both are a process.
    Until you've lost all faith in humanity you will be forever blind.

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    I mean you no disrespect, but I have no idea what you are talking about. THat made no sense whatsoever

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    Quote Originally Posted by napsnsnacks View Post
    As far as I am concerned I have never approved of all we see defined as born again or physical acts in the church of being born again or some person versions of receiving the Holy Spirit and all that.

    Jesus used "born" for a reason.

    Being born is a process. Water breaks, contractions, move down the birth canal.

    Who knows how fast that can happen or could take hours.

    When we are "born again" I think this takes us a lifetime of birthing because there is so much of us to get out of the way and I think we really will be "born" like when our feet leave the birth canal is like when we die and leave our bodies.

    With some they mature quicker than others, there is no "program" or "formula."

    The two are comparable and both are a process.
    Having witnessed numerous births, I assure you that birth is an instantaneous thing. You are confusing labor with birth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by napsnsnacks View Post
    As far as I am concerned I have never approved of all we see defined as born again or physical acts in the church of being born again or some person versions of receiving the Holy Spirit and all that.

    Jesus used "born" for a reason.

    Being born is a process. Water breaks, contractions, move down the birth canal.

    Who knows how fast that can happen or could take hours.

    When we are "born again" I think this takes us a lifetime of birthing because there is so much of us to get out of the way and I think we really will be "born" like when our feet leave the birth canal is like when we die and leave our bodies.

    With some they mature quicker than others, there is no "program" or "formula."

    The two are comparable and both are a process.
    But the Scriptures speak of our birth in the past tense:

    John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    1 Pet 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

    1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.


    The term "born again" is associated with our regeneration which happens instantaneously when we place our faith in Christ. The process of spiritual growth (sanctification) follows the new birth and so terms like "babes" & "milk" are associated with young or immature believers while terms such as "full age" and "meat" are associated with mature believers. The Christian life is also often described as a race and only those out of the womb can participate in a race (ie. first we crawl, then we walk and finally we run).

    Cheers
    Leigh

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    Quote Originally Posted by napsnsnacks View Post
    As far as I am concerned I have never approved of all we see defined as born again or physical acts in the church of being born again or some person versions of receiving the Holy Spirit and all that.

    Jesus used "born" for a reason.

    Being born is a process. Water breaks, contractions, move down the birth canal.

    Who knows how fast that can happen or could take hours.

    When we are "born again" I think this takes us a lifetime of birthing because there is so much of us to get out of the way and I think we really will be "born" like when our feet leave the birth canal is like when we die and leave our bodies.

    With some they mature quicker than others, there is no "program" or "formula."

    The two are comparable and both are a process.

    Well we do die and thats how we are born again... baptism not only washes aways our sins and adds us to the Body of Christ but it our man of sin being buried in water because we died or killed the old man and we rise up to walk in newness of life... we have put on Christ and we are born a Christian or a new creature if you will. So we are born again once we become a Christian via the watery grave of Baptism...

    Just look at Rom 6:1-6 which states

    "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."

    Some passages to look at are John 3:1-6, Rom 6:1-6 (already noted) 1st Peter 3:20-21 etc...

    So we do die and are born again when we become a Christian if you have any questions feel free to ask I will answer in more detail but I have to get back to work...
    Isaiah 6:8 "Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" We should always be willing to do God's bidding, seek ye first the kingdom of God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TEITZY View Post
    But the Scriptures speak of our birth in the past tense:

    John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    1 Pet 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

    1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

    1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.


    The term "born again" is associated with our regeneration which happens instantaneously when we place our faith in Christ. The process of spiritual growth (sanctification) follows the new birth and so terms like "babes" & "milk" are associated with young or immature believers while terms such as "full age" and "meat" are associated with mature believers. The Christian life is also often described as a race and only those out of the womb can participate in a race (ie. first we crawl, then we walk and finally we run).

    Cheers
    Leigh
    Good post, Teitzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whispering Grace View Post
    Having witnessed numerous births, I assure you that birth is an instantaneous thing. You are confusing labor with birth.
    If you think that labor, uteral contractions on the baby, are not part of being born then you haven't witnessed very much.
    Until you've lost all faith in humanity you will be forever blind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by napsnsnacks View Post
    If you think that labor, uteral contractions on the baby, are not part of being born then you haven't witnessed very much.
    There is a process leading up to the birth and then there is the actual birth, when the baby leaves the womb and takes air into it's lungs which gives it sustainable life.

    What time were you born, napsnsnacks? If you don't know, go ask your mom. I assure you, you were born at one instant in time (I was born at 9:54pm) and not a range of minutes or hours.

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    In honor of my kids' birthdays today, I will point out that my labor with my oldest son was about 6 hours and he was born at 11:14pm and my labor with my daughter was 59 minutes and she was born at 3:29am.

    Nanpsnsnacks, if you want to make natural comparisons with the divine, I would equate "labor" or the "birth process" with that time when the Holy Spirit is working in someone's heart and mind to bring them to knowledge of the truth.

    Then there is the actual moment when the work of the Holy Spirit comes to fruition and the person comes to saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is the moment when the new birth takes place.

    And as Teitzy pointed out, after our new birth, we are babes who need to grow up in Christ, but we can't grow up if we have never been born.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whispering Grace View Post
    There is a process leading up to the birth and then there is the actual birth, when the baby leaves the womb and takes air into it's lungs which gives it sustainable life.

    What time were you born, napsnsnacks? If you don't know, go ask your mom. I assure you, you were born at one instant in time (I was born at 9:54pm) and not a range of minutes or hours.
    The doctor is required by law to document only the time of the birthing process when you were completely out of the birth canal so the secular definition of "born" has no application.
    Until you've lost all faith in humanity you will be forever blind.

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    Cool Nicodemus

    Was Nicodemus stupid when he asked can a man enter into the womb of the mother and be born again? On the contrary, perhaps he was the most intelligent man (besides Jesus) in Israel then. He knows that it takes a woman to give birth. Do you know that we have a Heavenly Mother? And I speak not about Mary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whispering Grace View Post
    In honor of my kids' birthdays today, I will point out that my labor with my oldest son was about 6 hours and he was born at 11:14pm and my labor with my daughter was 59 minutes and she was born at 3:29am.

    Nanpsnsnacks, if you want to make natural comparisons with the divine, I would equate "labor" or the "birth process" with that time when the Holy Spirit is working in someone's heart and mind to bring them to knowledge of the truth.

    Then there is the actual moment when the work of the Holy Spirit comes to fruition and the person comes to saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is the moment when the new birth takes place.

    And as Teitzy pointed out, after our new birth, we are babes who need to grow up in Christ, but we can't grow up if we have never been born.

    Countless times I have seen these people go through the church demands of signs and wonders and physical and verbal evidences of conversion an 100% of these people never continued their walk of faith. They returned to their sin and stayed there. Totally disillusioned and these fraudulent process of salvation an conversion and such. Such is orchestrated by faithless people who demand signs and wonders for every last thing.

    On the other hand, those people who simply made "that" decision went on with their faith and their walk with Christ. They may have fallen in their sin again but they got up again, repented, who knows over and over until it was beaten.

    These other people, subject to fake deliverance from their sins with big fanfare and procedural process of receiving God, demonstrate that there is no Hedonist instant satisfaction with these matters. They are convinced they are completely born again and then whammo, they crash and burn. I was involved with such people for ages though I was never part of it.

    This is why I think being born again starts with a decision an then grows from there compared to the alternative and then walking out the door with a big bag of amusement park like emotions and your problems are gone because you are "born again."

    I know which understanding of the matter works in peoples lives and it is the one I mentioned compared to the circus tricks an hoop jumping.

    They are known by their fruit. And being baptized of course. Not signs and wonders and or counterfeit spiritual gifts to be seen of the world.
    Until you've lost all faith in humanity you will be forever blind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravi4u2 View Post
    Was Nicodemus stupid when he asked can a man enter into the womb of the mother and be born again? On the contrary, perhaps he was the most intelligent man (besides Jesus) in Israel then. He knows that it takes a woman to give birth. Do you know that we have a Heavenly Mother? And I speak not about Mary.
    Do you have a scripture reference to a "Heavenly Mother"?
    Until you've lost all faith in humanity you will be forever blind.

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    Mate in reference to the people coming into a church and wanting a physical sign. Its a common thing... I could tell you that I have jumped out of a plane at 12,000 feet. You could either belive me or not, but if you've used the evidence that I have posted in the past, you can probably work out i'm crazy enough to do it... regulary!

    With this in mind, you could choose to belive that Jesus died and was raised again, or not. But if you use the physical evidence of the bible, and physical evidence of God working through people's lives all around us, its not hard to have faith in God. Wanting to see God face to face is not faith.

    With regards to your argument about birth... a child is Born when it enters into the world, not when the "birthing" process starts. I had been seeking God for many years, to me that was my birthing process, i was born again when I accepted Jesus into my heart and entered into a new life.

    According to the Cambridge Dictionary - Definition
    born (BEGIN TO EXIST)
    adjective
    1 be born When a person or animal is born, they come out of their mother's body and start to exist:

    Not when the water breaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ravi4u2 View Post
    Do you know that we have a Heavenly Mother? And I speak not about Mary.
    You might want to expand on this because that sounds blasphemous to me.

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